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From Dave Fisher <>
Subject Re: Doctype of websites
Date Thu, 15 Mar 2012 15:32:42 GMT

On Mar 15, 2012, at 7:37 AM, Rob Weir wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Dave Fisher <> wrote:
>> On Mar 15, 2012, at 12:22 AM, Regina Henschel wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> Joe Schaefer schrieb:
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Regina Henschel<>
>>>>> To:
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 5:31 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Doctype of websites
>>>>> Hi Joe,
>>>>> Joe Schaefer schrieb:
>>>>>> Those pages should redirect
>>>>>> to pages, if not your
>>>>>> DNS resolver is busted.
>>>>> I had indeed set to Removing it makes
>>>>> redirecting work.
>>>>> That means the pages at had been the original ones,
>>>>> but will be deleted in near future. They had been imported to
>>>>> and here they have got a different doctype. Right?
>>>> Well sort of. If you look at the actual document on the site
>>>> you will probably find it contains an XHTML doctype even now.
>>>> The thing is that the CMS build system as Dave has designed it
>>>> will strip most of the header matter out of the file and replace
>>>> it with a generic one supplied by a template.
>>>>>    If that's not the problem
>>>>>> then you need to refresh your pages as they
>>>>>> are identical on the server.
>>>>>> As to why the doctype is different from the original
>>>>>> document, that's probably due to the way Dave worked
>>>>>> out the templates for the site.  If we need to scrape
>>>>>> the doctype out of each individual page that will require
>>>>>> some perl coding work, some templating work,
>>>>>> and another sledgehammer style commit- ie not something
>>>>>> to be taken lightly.
>>>>> Our pages had been XHTML with all the differences to HTML. And we tried
>>>>> to produce valid pages (including W3C check button). It is not
>>>>> impossible to change the pages and it can be done bit by bit while
>>>>> reviewing the pages. But the aim should be clear.
>>>> Well I can't advise you how to proceed from here, only point out
>>>> that there is some impedance mismatch between how your site builds
>>>> work and what's actually in these documents.  The choice seems
>>>> to be either standardize all the documents on a common doctype
>>>> or have the perl code pull the doctype out of the original document
>>>> if it exists and pass it along to the template as an argument.
>>>> You might even be better off just not supplying a doctype at all
>>>> and letting the browser figure it out.  Up to you folks.
>>> If we want valid pages, a common doctype is needed because the inserted part
has to be written in a way, that it fits this doctype. For example you need for the feather-logo
an <img .../> element in XHTML and in HTML only <img ...>. So I think we need
to agree on one doctype.
>>> Is it possible to count, how many pages of all are actually having an XHTML doctype?
(I'm not familiar with command line.)
>>> Kind regards
>>> Regina
>>> P.S. The feather img-Element is missing the alt-attribute.
>> I have been looking into this. In general the skeleton is the non-compliant part
and is what should be changed. However there are many of the NLC sites that are very much
>> One more sledgehammer will happen ... but planning needs to be careful.
> What if we went subdomain by subdomain and ran HTML Tidy on the
> content to coerce it to a single doctype. Would that butcher things?

We have a file called content/brand.mdtext that controls the branding language and logo for
each page. 

In templates we have templates/ssi.mdtext and templates/api/ssi.mdtext

David-Fishers-MacBook-Air:templates dave$ more ssi.mdtext
brand:  /brand.html
footer: /footer.html
topnav: /topnav.html
home:           home

I think that ssi.mdtext should add a line like:

doctype:	<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" "">

And if "mn" needs a different treatment:

brand:  /mn/brand.html
footer: /footer.html
topnav: /mn//topnav.html
home:           home

This fits the NL plan. I want to avoid divergent skeleton.html files, and it may be the case
that some sections will want an xhtml skeleton while others get a html.

I still intend to avoid changing every file.

I've $job to pay attention to until late today ... sorry that I'm dribbling out these plans
bit by bit.


> -Rob
>> Regards,
>> Dave

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