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From drew <d...@baseanswers.com>
Subject Re: After AOO 3.4, attracting new contributors
Date Thu, 29 Mar 2012 05:32:16 GMT
On Thu, 2012-03-29 at 12:54 +0800, Kevin Grignon wrote:
> Great points in this thread  
> 
> Question: Does OO community have a history if working with academic or professional groups
to recruit volunteers? Developers, designers and beyond. 

Hola Kevin,

hmm - perhaps review the information at:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project

It only covers a subset of your question, but an important one for this
discussion IMO.

//drew


> 
> What is the protocol to recruit?
> 
> Thoughts?
> Kevin
> 
> On Mar 29, 2012, at 12:23 PM, <qa@imsoftwaresystems.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Rob,
> > 
> > Well, the large talent pool is available here in India with millions of
> > students graduating in Engineering,MCA(Master of computer applications).
> > They all look for a project for their final semester. We can somehow try to
> > attract them but they also try to see what  is the benefit for them. Most
> > of these guys they learn C/Java as part of their  syllabus.But we need to
> > retrain them as they generally  just try to pass and not to be master of
> > it.
> > So we need to train them and make them useful.
> > 
> > I have not seen the code base yet but based on the search results what i
> > have understood is that it is implemented in 
> > 
> > Java,
> > OOBasic,
> > Cpp,
> > Python,
> > XSL,
> > ooRexx
> > 
> > From Freshers point of view they prefer the new languages like
> > Java(ofcourse it is a old one but still new when compared to C/C++) or
> > advanced stuff like Android. But still we can train people in C++ but it is
> > easy to attract people for Java.
> > 
> > If we know the exact requirement of people then we can try to gather the
> > people and train them and make them good to contribute to the project.
> > 
> > We have a software training institute and staff are from top MNC's.Lot of
> > students approach us for Live Projects to gain some real experience. 
> > 
> > So we may try to accept the people and train them. We charge the students
> > for training as we have to pay the trainers. 
> > Ultimately what students expect is an experience letter from Apache so that
> > they can utilise it for future employment. In addition to issuing the
> > certificate we should have their contribution mentioned in our website
> > otherwise other job seekers will fake the cetificates.
> > 
> > I think if the company(Apache) is ready to issue a certificate mentioning
> > their contribution towards the project and list their contribution in AOO
> > website then it should definetly work.
> > 
> > Thanks & Regards,
> > Ram,
> > Im Software Systems
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:11:59 -0400, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
> >> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 12:05 PM, <qa@imsoftwaresystems.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Hi,
> >>> 
> >>> I am sorry i am new to this dev mailing list. What is the real
> >>> requirement.
> >>> In what areas we need people for the next 1 year. What is the exact
> > skill
> >>> set needed. Let me see if i can computerof help you in anyway.
> >>> i
> >>> 
> >> Hi Ram,
> >> 
> >> As you can probably tell, from reading the ooo-dev list posts, we're just
> >> finishing up the OpenOffice 3.4 release. So it probably appears chaotic
> >> right now, but this is just a sign of the high activity level as we
> >> complete the remaining tasks for this release.
> >> 
> >> We have not had a community discussion about "the next 1 year", so what
> >> follows expresses my personal view only.
> >> 
> >> Areas where we especially need help:
> >> 
> >> - C/C++ programmers to work on the core OpenOffice code on feature
> >> development and bug fixing.
> >> 
> >> - There is some interest in developing some test automation based on a
> > Java
> >> testing framework that IBM said they would contribute.  So someone with
> >> skills in QA and Java could help with this.
> >> 
> >> - There is plenty of work to do with manual testing, especially with test
> >> case definition.  It might make sense to start with defining the test
> > cases
> >> and execute them manually at first, but overtime migrate to test
> >> automation.
> >> 
> >> - We have had some discussion about making a more intelligent install
> >> program, so it can bring down a small core program and then download
> >> additional modules, like spell checkers, language packs, etc., when
> > needed,
> >> over the internet.
> >> 
> >> I would also return the question and ask, what kind of things do you want
> >> to do?  The project works best, I think, when people are working on
> > things
> >> that they find interesting.
> >> 
> >> Regards,
> >> 
> >> -Rob
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> Thanks & Regards,
> >>> Ram,
> >>> Im Software Systems
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:47:30 +0100, Ian Lynch <ianrlynch@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> On 28 March 2012 02:38, Kevin Grignon <kevingrignon.oo@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>>> Many great thoughts here.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> In addition to supporting the open source movement, perhaps we could
> >>>>> market participation as a way to learn and develop skills.
> >>>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Maybe a certificate for AOO development professional? Work out the key
> >>>> skills needed to contribute to development and write a set of
> >>>> indicative
> >>>> assessment criteria. Get a mentor to verify the candidate's evidence
> >>>> that
> >>>> they can meet the criteria. If there was interest in it we have the
> >>>> facilities to support it including secure on-line testing facilities
> >>>> and
> >>> a
> >>>> Drupal system for managing coursework evidence which we would do as
a
> >>> free
> >>>> contribution to the project. We'd just need help defining the criteria
> >>> from
> >>>> the most experienced developers.
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>>> As a newbie, it appears that much our message is around what we
need
> > -
> >>>>> which is essential to understand, however we may want to focus on
why
> >>>>> someone may want to join and help them realize their goals.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> For example, if someone is looking to demonstrate their skills and
> >>>>> develop
> >>>>> portfolio work products, then AOO offers a sandbox of opportunity.
> >>>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> And a potential certification of skills.
> >>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Some thoughts.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Regards,
> >>>>> Kevin
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> On Mar 27, 2012, at 10:47 PM, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org>
wrote:
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>> On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 9:39 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts
> >>>>>> <luispo@gmail.com
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>> On 2012-03-19, at 08:41 , Rob Weir wrote:
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> Any ideas and the best ways how we can improve in this
area after
> >>> AOO
> >>>>>>>> 3.4 releases?
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Lots, and these would complement the rather good ideas already
> >>>>>>> proposed.
> >>>>>>> What we did at OOo actually worked--to attract developers
and
> >>>>> contributors
> >>>>>>> of all sorts. What worked against us I do not think I need
spell
> >>>>>>> out,
> >>>>> but
> >>>>>>> the cussedness of the code was not really the determining
factor.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> What really would help, besides giving would-bes a clean
entry, is
> >>>>>>> to
> >>>>> have
> >>>>>>> mentors, more or less do-able tasks that are identified
as such.
> >>>>>>> (We
> >>>>> tried
> >>>>>>> getting to this many times, and I strongly urged my erstwhile
> >>>>> colleagues in
> >>>>>>> this area for, uhm, years. Finally happened, and we got
our to-dos
> >>> but
> >>>>>>> still not clearly identified according to level of difficulty.
I
> >>>>>>> can
> >>>>>>> conceive of several  here whose work would assist in the
> >>>>>>> identification
> >>>>> of
> >>>>>>> tasks newbies could approach--and even post-newbies-and
perhaps
> >>>>>>> even
> >>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>> mentoring.)
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Also, what helps tremendously is what we are doing already:
> >>> presenting
> >>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>> community that is open, friendly, and generally has a good
> > attitude
> >>>>> about
> >>>>>>> what it is doing and where it is going. There are millions
using
> >>>>>>> OOo
> >>>>>>> as
> >>>>>>> their primary ODF implementation, and those mostly include
those
> >>>>>>> who
> >>>>> have
> >>>>>>> come to it via the national or sub-national government agency.
I
> >>> think
> >>>>> it's
> >>>>>>> about time that they are looking to AOO for the next step.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>> I think the idea of a new contributor mentor is essential. 
 This
> > is
> >>>>>> true
> >>>>>> for coders, but also website, translation, documentation, test,
UI,
> >>>>>> etc.
> >>>>>> What we have today is very much a "swim or sink" and "drink
from
> > the
> >>>>>> fire
> >>>>>> hose" approach.  If someone is highly motivated, highly skilled
and
> >>>>>> persistent, and is able to withstand the apparent chaos of the
> >>>>>> ooo-dev
> >>>>>> list, and penetrates the noise and asks questions, and repeats
> > their
> >>>>>> questions until answered, then they might have a 50/50 chance
of
> >>>>>> contributing.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> But let's be honest with ourselves -- there are a range of projects
> >>>>> someone
> >>>>>> can contribute to.  For would-be volunteers it is a buyer's
market.
> >>> If
> >>>>> we
> >>>>>> make it too hard to get involved and contribute, technically,
> >>>>> procedurally,
> >>>>>> socially, then we lose.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> But getting new volunteers on board requires effort.  If someone
is
> >>>>>> spending 100% of their time on their own features, then they
have
> > no
> >>>>>> time
> >>>>>> to help new volunteers become productive.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> One approach might be to define "essential skills" or "essential
> >>>>> knowledge"
> >>>>>> that a new volunteer needs to master in order to become productive,
> >>> and
> >>>>>> then a list of project members who are willing to help mentor
new
> >>>>>> volunteers to acquire those skills.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> For example, for the website, the essential skills might be:
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 1) Assume HTML/CSS, we're not here to teach that
> >>>>>> 2) Help them get started with Markdown Text
> >>>>>> 3) Help them use the CMS to generate patches
> >>>>>> 4) Help them build website locally via the scripts
> >>>>>> 5) Understanding the larger site design, including recurring
page
> >>>>> elements,
> >>>>>> footers, etc.
> >>>>>> 6) In parallel with above, understanding Apache, roles, decision
> >>>>>> making,
> >>>>>> lazy consensus, CTR versus RTC, what Infra does versus what
the
> >>> project
> >>>>> is
> >>>>>> responsible for, etc.
> >>>>>> 7) Help them establish a record of contributions to become a
> >>>>>> committer
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Anyone who has done the above can do 95% of what is needed to
> > become
> >>>>>> a
> >>>>>> master of our website.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> It would be wonderful if we had something like that, a check
list
> >>>>>> even
> >>>>>> a
> >>>>>> curriculum, for other common functions, as well as volunteers
able
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>> take
> >>>>>> on new project volunteers willing to help.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> This is all an investment in the future success of the project.
 We
> >>>>>> grow
> >>>>> by
> >>>>>> attracting new volunteers.  But the investment is time spent
on
> >>>>> mentoring.
> >>>>>> This would all be over-kill for the average Apache PMC of 8-12
> >>>>>> people.
> >>>>> But
> >>>>>> with 10 million lines of code, a PMC nearing 100 members, and
the
> >>>>>> largest
> >>>>>> project at Apache, we need an approach to training new volunteers
> >>>>>> that
> >>>>>> works to scale.  I think something like the above helps get
us
> >>>>>> closer.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> -Rob
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> And I can think of at least two, and probably more, national
bodies
> >>>>>> so
> >>>>>>> interested.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Do these give us developers straight away? I don't know.
The
> >>>>>>> problem
> >>>>> with
> >>>>>>> OOo was, as [not] said ultimately political, not codical
> >>>>>>> (comical?).
> >>>>>>> Engaging these longtime users, as well as new ones, with
the
> >>>>> possibilities
> >>>>>>> represented by this community, which is open and
> >>>>>>> unencumbered--ought
> >>>>>>> to
> >>>>> be
> >>>>>>> easier.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> My own approach is to focus on ODF and on the benefits offered
not
> >>>>>>> only
> >>>>> by
> >>>>>>> the AOO implementation but by its community.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> -louis
> >>>>> 
> >>> 
> 



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