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From Joe Schaefer <joe_schae...@yahoo.com>
Subject Re: Sourceforge and AOO 3.4 distribution
Date Wed, 21 Mar 2012 15:52:29 GMT
Right now the ASF has roughly 250 mirrors,
of which atm I'd expect 50 or so to drop us if
we start carrying AOO releases.  That means
we'd have about twice as many mirrors as
the mirrorbrain OOo service has, so we should
be in better shape overall than what happened
in the past, assuming we do something smart
about staggering the Update service.  There
will be no way to surprise anybody about the
release timing for an AOO release as at least

a week of public discussion/voting will precede it.


I still would like to strongly suggest that
someone on the PPMC step up NOW and offer to contact
existing mirror operators to get them to cover
some of our losses.




>________________________________
> From: drew <drew@baseanswers.com>
>To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org 
>Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 11:45 AM
>Subject: Re: Sourceforge and AOO 3.4 distribution
> 
>On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 15:45 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > We're still exploring available options and collecting
>> > data imacat.  Right now an existing ooo mirror operator
>> > has reported to us that his average bandwidth consumption
>> > for ooo was ~100Mbps.  It would help us to know how many
>> > mirrors support the existing mirrorbrain service for ooo
>> > to get a guess as to what the impact would be for Apache
>> > mirrors, but we are anticipating similar bandwidth requirements
>> > for our mirrors given the available data.
>> >
>> >
>> > What we currently need are estimates related to peak downloads
>> > during the initial few days / weeks of a release.  Anyone
>> > with historical data on this needs to step forward and share
>> > it ASAP- 300K strikes me as an off-peak figure at this point.
>> >
>> 
>> I have not seen any actual log files with this info, but there are
>> reported tidbits that might be useful, such as:
>> 
>> "OpenOffice.org 3.0 was downloaded 3 million times in its first week,
>> with about 80% of the downloads by Windows users, an official with the
>> group said in a blog post on Monday."
>> 
>> http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9117575/OpenOffice.org_3.0_scores_strong_first_week
>> 
>> So per day that is 430,000, around 50% much more than the average we
>> saw in February.  Not as much as I expected.
>> 
>> What I don't know is when they enabled the update notifications
>> feature then, if it even existed in 3.0.  I think that will have a big
>> impact on download peaks.  In fact, we might even want to be clever,
>> like have a CGI that sometimes says there is an update available, and
>> sometimes does not, just to spread out the load more evenly.  For
>> example, if we have our server respond "you have the latest" 90% of
>> the time, then it will take several requests on average for the
>> auto-update feature to prompt the user to download the update.  So we
>> have some ability to throttle that demand, based on our CGI.
>> 
>> -Rob
>
>I thought that the mirror system had failed to keep up with demand in
>the first day or two of the 3.0 release, if that is true (I can't find a
>reference now), then it would of been higher if the servers had been
>able to keep up. Anyway my recall is that it was something about the
>download rush happening before the push from master to all the mirrors
>had finished - which IIRC was a recurring problem prompted by bloggers
>trying to scoop the release announcement.
>
>Anyway - just passing along what I recall
>
>//drew
>
>
>> 
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: imacat <imacat@mail.imacat.idv.tw>
>> >> To: Apache OpenOffice Developers <ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org>
>> >> Cc:
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 3:14 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: Sourceforge and AOO 3.4 distribution
>> >>
>> >>     Please correct me if I'm wrong.  But I thought that the Apache
>> >> mirrors have more bandwidth than the SourceForge mirrors.  Could someone
>> >> explain why do we put the default download to places with less bandwidth?
>> >>
>> >> Apache mirrors:
>> >> http://www.apache.org/mirrors/
>> >>
>> >> SourceForge mirrors:
>> >> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sourceforge/wiki/Mirrors
>> >>
>> >> On 2012/03/21 03:07, Dave Fisher said:
>> >>>
>> >>>  On Mar 20, 2012, at 11:33 AM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>>  ________________________________
>> >>>>>  From: Mark Ramm <mark@geek.net>
>> >>>>>  To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer
>> >> <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>
>> >>>>>  Cc: Ross Gardler <rgardler@opendirective.com>
>> >>>>>  Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 2:25 PM
>> >>>>>  Subject: Re: Sourceforge and AOO 3.4 distribution
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>  On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 4:04 PM, Joe Schaefer
>> >> <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>  FWIW the ballpark figures we have today Roberto
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>  are roughly 12GB worth of release artifacts and
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>  about100TB / day worth of download traffic.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>  Thanks for the information.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>  I'm working with Roberto to make sure all the right technical
>> >>>>>  resources are aligned behind him, and that we have the resources
to
>> >>>>>  provide a great experience to your users. So, I'm here to
help
>> >> out,
>> >>>>>  and validate everything to make sure we are prepared to handle
>> >> AOO's
>> >>>>>  peak load.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>  Based on the file size data in the previous e-mail, and this
>> >> bandwidth
>> >>>>>  information, I believe we are talking about something around
700k
>> >>>>>  download per day.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>  Is that peak load, or is that sustained load? If it's
>> >> sustained, do
>> >>>>>  you have any ideas about what peak load would look like? 
If not,
>> >> do
>> >>>>>  you have any ideas about what sustained load would look like?
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>  Up until the Update service broke last week, ooo was sustaining
300K
>> >>>>  downloads a day. We used a ballpark download figure of 300 MB
per user,
>> >>>>  which may explain the discrepancy if you used something considerably
>> >> less.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>  We simply don't have any data at this point about peak load to
make
>> >>>>  any educated guesses.
>> >>>
>> >>>  When this subject came up last year Marcus described peak as 300,000
>> >> downloads / day.
>> >>>
>> >>>  Stats were collected until last February's switch to Kenai. See
>> >> http://www.openoffice.org/marketing/marketing_bouncer.html
>> >>>
>> >>>  Depending on how we handle the announcement of AOO 3.4 - press, update
>> >> service, and ooo-announce we might be able to spread a single spike into
more
>> >> smaller peaks.
>> >>>
>> >>>  HTH,
>> >>>  Dave
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>  And finally: would you have any objection to us using a mix
of
>> >> fixed
>> >>>>>  mirrors, elastic file delivery services (like s3), and commercial
>> >> CDN
>> >>>>>  service to handle spikes in download gracefully and assure
that
>> >> global
>> >>>>>  users get good download performance when local mirrors are
>> >> overloaded
>> >>>>>  or not available?
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>  No, we may even be willing to budget some amount for this purpose.
>> >>>>  Cost estimates would be appreciated as our budget numbers for
FY2012
>> >>>>  need to be finalized next week.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>  I'm looking forward to working with all of you to make sure
>> >> that users
>> >>>>>  have a reliable and fast download source for the upcoming
Apache
>> >> Open
>> >>>>>  Office release.   Let me know if there's any questions I
can
>> >> answer
>> >>>>>  for you, or anything else I can do to help.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>  --Mark Ramm
>> >>>>>  ====
>> >>>>>  This e- mail message is intended only for the named recipient(s)
>> >> above. It may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are
not
>> >> the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
>> >> distribution or copying of this e-mail and any attachment(s) is strictly
>> >> prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately
notify
>> >> the sender by replying to this e-mail and delete the message and any
>> >> attachment(s) from your system. Thank you.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Best regards,
>> >> imacat ^_*' <imacat@mail.imacat.idv.tw>
>> >> PGP Key http://www.imacat.idv.tw/me/pgpkey.asc
>> >>
>> >> <<Woman's Voice>> News: http://www.wov.idv.tw/
>> >> Tavern IMACAT's http://www.imacat.idv.tw/
>> >> Woman in FOSS in Taiwan http://wofoss.blogspot.com/
>> >> Apache OpenOffice http://www.openoffice.org/
>> >> EducOO/OOo4Kids Taiwan http://www.educoo.tw/
>> >>
>> 
>
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