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From Joe Schaefer <>
Subject Re: Competition (was: Clarifying facts)
Date Tue, 13 Mar 2012 23:45:35 GMT

----- Original Message -----

> From: Pedro Giffuni <>
> To:
> Cc: 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 7:29 PM
> Subject: Re: Competition (was: Clarifying facts)
> On 03/13/12 18:00, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>  ...
>>>  On 03/13/12 17:36, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>>>>>      At Apache we aren't in competition with other 
> projects,
>>>>>>      we provide our work for the public benefit and leave
>>>>>>      discretion about adoption to the public.  Please keep
>>>>>>      that in mind, and stick to providing resources that
>>>>>>      benefit general members of the public.
>>>  In general I am OK with that, but I think here we talk with the code:
>>>  Other projects can take our code and integrate it with their project
>>>  and we like and encourage that but that doesn't mean we are going
>>>  to recommend their project in our webpages or wikis.
>>>  Do you really think we are doing all this hard work to put together
>>>  a release to recommend people to download something else?
>>  Well the thing is, right now the situation is that you haven't 
> released.
>>  What you tell people to do between now and then will change as the facts
>>  change, but informing users about alternatives is actually a way to gain
>>  their respect, and playing silly games to hide those alternatives under
>>  the guise that the truth needs to be colored somehow does a disservice
>>  to your users, and to the reputation of this project as a providing a
>>  public vendor-neutral resource.
> No, It's really very simple: we have developer snapshots and we
> want people to test them. At this precise time we need testers and
> people reporting bugs in the release. Bug reports from someone
> running LibreOffice are not useful to us.

The question isn't what's useful to *you*, it's what's useful to *them*.
Yes it'd be great if every user volunteered to be a sacrificial guinea
pig for us, but users have their own problems to think about too.

> No silly games were played, unless you mean the line about trying
> LO as an interim solution (by Simon). I personally think such a
> suggestion is rather offensive with the developers that have been
> putting a huge effort for this release.

Yeah well I'm suggesting this isn't the most convivial attitude for you
to adopt as a participant in a public charity.  Yes you all should be proud
of your accomplishments to date, I'm very happy with the progress so far.
But Simon's suggestion about using LO isn't offensive to me as an Apache
mentor of this project at all, and it shouldn't be to you.  No matter what
sort of crappy attitude you get back from LO proponents, you should try
to be the adults in the conversation more often than not.

>>>  Sure I love the idea of having a great family playing under the same
>>>  umbrella but realistically that is not happening and if people want
>>>  to work with us the best place to do it is here.
>>  Well you still have some harder collective choices to make regarding
>>  interoperability once you start gearing up for a 4.0 release that
>>  may provide an upgrade path for 3.4 users but will diverge from
>>  the plans of the LibreOffice team.  Having an open communication
>>  channel will benefit both communities as well as the entire user
>>  base of both products, don't you think?
> This discussion has nothing to do with interoperability. We can
> be different and each project will support their own releases
> looking at the other over the shoulder and still interoperate.
> This said and this is only IMHO: I think we can forget about
> interoperability beyond the standard ODF. In at least a case
> I am aware of, LO is breaking the extensions API and has
> no interest to share the changes.

Well my point was about looking out for the entire user community,
and breaking interoperability for extension authors is not a small
matter no matter who does it.  IOW that is a problem you should
work to resolve with the LO team, not to point fingers at each other

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