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Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 15:32:38 -0500
Message-ID: 
 <CAP-ksog76BtH=3eADGT8+qn=Ah6ATh=7mcvA0Mi2JP5yHnE=Ng@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Moving ahead with the AOO logo and rebranding
From: Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org>
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
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On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 2:20 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> On Jan 9, 2012, at 10:43 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 1:38 PM, Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com> wr=
ote:
>>> Look Rob, it is clear you lack any notion of the years of
>>> history infra has had supporting new initiatives for projects
>>> that were brought here, and have no grasp of how rude your
>>> remarks are to the people who try to service this particular
>>> project's needs and interests.
>>>
>>
>> I've been through this several times. =C2=A0I know that everything new w=
e
>> ask for is considered impossible at first, or we're told to just go
>> away, or that the request is an insult to the dignity of Infra. =C2=A0Bu=
t I
>> also know that with time and patience and careful explanation, it all
>> becomes possible in the end, and is done quite well. =C2=A0I understand =
how
>> it works. =C2=A0I've already been sent the "users manual" for Infra.
>
> The bumps have attracted more attention than what has gone smoothly.
>
> We need more than TJ and Drew to manage the MediaWiki and Forums.
>
> Who are our projects BZ admins? Are there remaining issues.
>
> Joe has done significant work on the Apache CMS making it resilient to th=
e very large sledgehammer that is the OOo website.
>
> Pootle server required no handwringing, other Apache projects had a need.=
 Does anyone know if we have the old data from Martin, et al?
>
> Buildbots are being worked on...
>
> E&T are in process. Who is working on the short term MOU w/ SF?
>
> Apache Infrastructure is doing a huge amount of work for AOO.
>
> Please be thankful and not so willing to engage in every fight and always=
 having the last word.
>

And AOO volunteers are doing a huge amount for the project as well.
We're all doing this for a common purpose, so I'd appreciate it if we
stopped excusing Infra like it was a different class of volunteer (or
paid Apache staff as the case may be) that is free to insult another
class of volunteer (or paid employee as the case may be).  Let's not
perpetuate the perception that those who work hard (paid or volunteer)
get a "free pass" on civility.

I made a reasonable observation on the advantage of having our own
instance of Lime.  This solves the data security/privacy problem.  It
could also provide a good substitute for the user registration system
that we lost when migrating to Apache.  You, Joe, or anyone else, may
agree or disagree with these points and are free to argue your points.
 But the personal insults do not belong here.

-Rob

> Regards,
> Dave
>
>>
>>> Go ask Geronimo people about their attitudes towards our wiki
>>> deployments over the years to get some feel for the game you
>>> are trying to play. =C2=A0We're long past those days now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org>
>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>> Cc:
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 9, 2012 1:34 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Moving ahead with the AOO logo and rebranding
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 1:31 PM, Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> =C2=A0-1. =C2=A0There is no shame in using 3rd party services for uno=
fficial
>>>>> =C2=A0business such as surveys and polls. =C2=A0Please get out of the=
 nasty
>>>>> =C2=A0habit of thinking that what's good for this project is good for
>>>>> =C2=A0the org, it doesn't help matters at all and will only serve to
>>>>> =C2=A0alienate infra people from addressing your specific needs.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Joe, there should be shame in your comments above. =C2=A0Please take y=
our
>>>> "nasty habit" comments elsewhere.
>>>>
>>>> I think this project has enhanced Apache and Infra's view of what is
>>>> possible at Apache, and that this is to the benefit of all Apache
>>>> projects.
>>>>
>>>> -Rob
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> =C2=A0----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> =C2=A0From: Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org>
>>>>>> =C2=A0To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> =C2=A0Cc:
>>>>>> =C2=A0Sent: Monday, January 9, 2012 1:28 PM
>>>>>> =C2=A0Subject: Re: Moving ahead with the AOO logo and rebranding
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =C2=A0On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Pedro Giffuni <pfg@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> =C2=A0 ...
>>>>>>> =C2=A0 --- Lun 9/1/12, Andrew Rist <andrew.rist@oracle.com> ha
>>>> scritto:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> =C2=A0 On 1/8/2012 5:59 PM, Graham Lauder wrote:
>>>>>>>> =C2=A0 > <snip>
>>>>>>>> =C2=A0 > What did you have in mind for the survey itself?
>>>>>>>> =C2=A0 Were you thinking of
>>>>>>>> =C2=A0 > SurveyMonkey?
>>>>>>>> =C2=A0 > Survey monkey is good, though personally I prefer
>>>>>>>> =C2=A0 Zoomerang, but I'm with
>>>>>>>> =C2=A0 > Claudio, =C2=A0Lime Survey is great =C2=A0and we have
>>>>>>>> =C2=A0 an instance in place already that
>>>>>>>> =C2=A0 > we possibly could use before Oracle pulls the plug
>>>>>>>> =C2=A0 entirely.
>>>>>>>> =C2=A0 >
>>>>>>>> =C2=A0 > Possible Andrew?
>>>>>>>> =C2=A0 All this infra is getting decommissioned as stuff moves to
>>>>>>>> =C2=A0 ASF. =C2=A0What's the link to the Lime Survey? =C2=A0Is tha=
t
>>>> actually
>>>>>>>> =C2=A0 online?
>>>>>>>> =C2=A0 Even if it's still around, we should look for a more
>>>>>>>> =C2=A0 forward looking solution that we can reuse on future projec=
ts.
>>>>>>>> =C2=A0 (thus probably not a good idea to use, even if it's still
>>>>>>>> =C2=A0 around)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =C2=A0 AFAIR,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =C2=A0 Lime Survey has a free online service. I am not sure of the
>>>>>>> =C2=A0 conditions (ad supported, fewer questions maybe) but it
>>>>>>> =C2=A0 should be enough for most purposes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =C2=A0And if we want to host this at Apache, I bet other projects wo=
uld use
>>>>>> =C2=A0it as well, probably also the Foundation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =C2=A0Pre-reqs are not particularly complicated:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> http://docs.limesurvey.org/Installation&structure=3DEnglish+Instructio=
ns+for+LimeSurvey#Make_sure_you_can_use_LimeSurvey_on_your_website
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =C2=A0 Pedro.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>