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From Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Extensions hosting
Date Wed, 04 Jan 2012 22:15:17 GMT
On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Gavin McDonald <gavin@16degrees.com.au> wrote:
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
>> Sent: Thursday, 5 January 2012 4:32 AM
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Extensions hosting
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Ross Gardler <rgardler@opendirective.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> > Once you've digested and debated the offer from Sourceforge the
>> > community needs to come up with a couple of paragraphs indicating a
>> > desired route forwards and reasons for it. I will try and attend the
>> > appropriate board meeting in order to answer any questions that arise.
>> >
>>
>> Maybe I'm the only dolt here, but one reason it is hard for me to make a
>> recommendation on a "desired route forward" is that I only have SF's
>> proposal in front of me.  I don't have any proposal from Infra on what they
>> would like to do.  Or did I miss it?
>
> Yes you missed it, read the archives.
>

Could you give a link to the post?  I'm probably not the only one that
would like to compare the two proposals.

>>
>> I agree with you that the proposed time frame (in two weeks) is too fast for
>> us to react.  But I do think that we need a very solid and capable extension
>> and template repository before we release AOO 3.4.
>> I anticipate heavy traffic at that time. Since we're pushing for a Q1 release of
>> 3.4, that means we will need to move quickly on stabilizing these services.
>>
>> It would be great to better understand where we might be with an Infra
>> effort in this same time frame.
>>
>> Also, as I understand it, even with a short term stabilization effort from Infra,
>> we're still out-of-policy for graduation, and we'd need to
>> move to another solution after that.   It sounds like the federated
>> approach where host only an index might work.  I think I understand what
>> that effort would entail.  Technically it can be clean and elegant, but it does
>> have a high coordination cost, dealing with all of the extension and templates
>> authors.
>>
>> On the other hand, an external host, like SF, could get us the stability we
>> need, as well as deal with the OSS license compatibility policy issues. We
>> resolve it all at once.
>>
>> I wonder whether one blended solution might be:
>>
>> 1) Accept SF's offer for the short term stability improvement and getting in
>> policy with the copyleft extensions.
>>
>> 2) In parallel work with Apache Infra, volunteers from this project, and from
>> SF (and maybe LibreOffice?), on an Apache Labs project to build a simple
>> open source template/extensions management server.
>> Maybe we can start from the existing server? (What license is it?) Extend
>> that to give the kind of loose coupling and federation we want.
>>  When that is ready, the SF will be well positioned to host one of the first
>> servers of its kind.  But we'll also be making this software available to anyone
>> to set up their own repository.
>
> You are missing the point (well some of it.) Part of the reason for the templates
> and extensions being moved off ours servers for distribution was to reduce the
> heavy load demanded of it at OSUOSL. Our bandwidth is not finate and if we can
> reduce this by having template and extension owners self-host, all the better
> and is one reason why I intended to go with the suggested metadata approach.
>

That's fine. Loose coupling will have all sorts of benefits, not
limited to the ones I (or you) think of here and now

If bandwidth is an issue, then it would be good to resolve how we're
going to deal with the dictionaries -- the aggregation question we
have open with legal-discuss.   If we are not able to include
dictionaries with our releases (which would be mirrored) then every
user would need to download a dictionary very an extension.  That
would be a much bigger bandwidth problem.

> Gav...
>
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>> > Please be imaginative in your planning for the future. The optimal
>> > solution might be some combination of ASF and SF offerings.
>> >
>> > Note Roberto Gallopini has joined this list and is ready to make any
>> > clarifications necessary. I've also made Gav aware of this post so
>> > that he can answer any questions we have about what infra@ are able to
>> > do.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Ross
>> >
>> > --- COPIED PROPOSAL ---
>> >
>> > I'm glad we had a chance to talk last week - exciting times for Open
>> > Office as the product and community transition into the ASF.
>> >
>> > For over a decade, SourceForge has been committed to advancing the
>> > open source software community.  We host over 300,000 projects and are
>> > visited by over 40 MM users per month for free, secure, and fast
>> > downloads of open source software.  Trusted and reliable download
>> > delivery is an important part of our service, with over 4 million
>> > downloads per day and 2 PB from our mirror network each month.  We are
>> > committed to helping OSS projects scale and grow.
>> >
>> > Based on our discussions, we understand there are a few things you are
>> > solving for as part of the Open Office Incubation effort:
>> > Supporting a diverse licensing terms for Open Office extensions, that
>> > may not all comply with the Apache OSS policy; Stabilizing your Drupal
>> > OO Extensions site and ensuring high availability and download
>> > bandwidth without cost Expanding both the developer base who will move
>> > into working on the Apache framework as well as adoption of the Open
>> > Office product and extensions.
>> > We think we can help and that there would be mutual benefit.  To that
>> > end, we propose the following for your consideration:
>> >
>> > 1.) Stabilize the your OO Extensions Drupal instance by moving the it
>> > and all services to SourceForge.  Our Site Operations team will do teh
>> > work and oversee the operations for you as we do other services.  To
>> > your community the directory will look the same and extension and
>> > template files will move to SourceForge's globally-distributed
>> > download mirror network where we can ensure reliable, scalable
>> > delivery.  Drupal will be hosted on our project web service, serving
>> > your existing domain via a VHOST.  Standard infrastructure
>> > (monitoring, backups, etc.) and service levels (99.9% availability
>> > target) apply.
>> >
>> > These SourceForge services will be provided gratis, and without
>> > lock-in -- you are open to change your mind later.  We anticipate this
>> > migration would involve a week of planning and preparation, followed
>> > by a week of migration and pre/post-migration communications.  We're
>> > prepared to commence this work the next week if provided your approval
>> > and support.
>> >
>> > 2.) Once stabilized, we will work with you on a timeline to evaluate
>> > and execute a migration from Drupal 5 to Drupal 7.
>> >
>> > Allowing us to host the Extensions community will solve the license
>> > challenges - or at least give you time to work through a longer term
>> > solution.  We would also be able to cross promote the software titles
>> > to the development community as well - so perhaps expand not only your
>> > user base but developers.
>> >
>> > Roberto (our Sr. Director of Business Development) has been involved
>> > in the OpenOffice.org community for many years -- he will continue to
>> > be your point-of-contact.  If we secure the go-ahead this week, we
>> > will start on Tuesday next week and expect to be complete by 1/15 with
>> > step 1.  I have asked our head of Site Ops to oversee the
>> > implementation and he'll partner up with your technical folks to
>> > ensure the hosting transition goes well.
>> >
>> > Our motivation here is quite simple, it is all part of our mission to
>> > help Open Source Software initiatives succeed.  To that end,
>> > SourceForge and Geeknet Media are able to fund these services and make
>> > them free to the community through advertising largely on the download
>> > and directory pages.  So there won't ever be a charge back to your
>> > community and we are able to reinvest in R&D on our developer tools as
>> > well.
>> >
>> > We look forward to hearing back from you this week if possible.  Feel
>> > free to forward this on to whomever you would like in terms of getting
>> > to an aligned decision.
>> >
>> > I wish you a happy new year!
>> >
>> > --
>> > Thank you,
>> > Jeff
>> >
>> > --- End of copied text ---
>> > --
>> > Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
>> > Programme Leader (Open Development)
>> > OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>

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