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From Roberto Galoppini <rgalopp...@geek.net>
Subject Re: Extensions hosting
Date Fri, 06 Jan 2012 17:24:41 GMT
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Ross Gardler <rgardler@opendirective.com> wrote:
> On 6 January 2012 15:49, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
>> On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Ross Gardler
>> <rgardler@opendirective.com> wrote:
>>> On 6 January 2012 15:03, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>>>> I'm not saying you *will* be allowed to host them, I'm saying you
>>>>> *may* be allowed to. Similarly, I'm asking you, and others, to stop
>>>>> saying you *won't* be able to host them.
>>>>>
>>
>
> ...
>
>>
>>> Lets continue to focus on what the AOO *wants* not what some of us
>>> perceive is *allowed*. Once we know what is wanted we can explore what
>>> is possible.
>>>
>>
>> OK.  So if we want to host the extensions site, as is, and have it
>> conform to some revised ASF policy, then we would need to be able to
>> do things like:
>>
>> 1) Host GPL extensions on Apache servers, using websites associated
>> with Apache products, using Apache trademarks.  In other words,
>> without the distance the Board has encouraged the use of Apache-Extras
>> for in the past.
>
> That is not a correct summary of the ASFs position. We do not
> *develop* software that is under any licence other than ALv2 (go to
> apache-extras). As far as I understand it the extensions site does not
> provide development support.
>
> We do not distribute incompatibly licensed code that might restrict
> the rights of our downstream users to *modify* the source of our
> projects. Since none of the extensions will be bundled with AOO
> releases this is not relevant.
>
> As a by-product of these two policies we do not, at present,
> distribute any incompatible binaries under normal circumstances. This
> is the part that we would need to get approval. Remember that this
> approval has been delegated to the IPMC and anyone in this community
> can seek it at any time.
>
> As for using Apache trademarks we have a policy that, in my opinion,
> will cover the vast majority of cases for the extensions site (there
> might be a need to ask maintainers to update their sites and the PPMC
> will have to take ownership of this. This will be the case wherever
> the extension is hosted. How effective the PPMC can be in this matter
> is a different issue, but since it is not affected by the location of
> the hosting it is irrelevant in this discussion, I think.
>
>> 2) Similarly, the repository currently includes non OSS extensions,
>> including demos of proprietary extensions, and various forms of
>> demoware and trialware extensions.  We would need permission to host
>> these, again, on Apache servers that bear trademarked names, e.g., an
>> openoffice.org website.
>
> As with 1) above.
>
>> 3) Similarly we have at least one case today where the extension
>> website hosts a Paypal link for collecting money for an extension.  We
>> would need permission from the Board to host 3rd party revenue
>> collection links on Apache servers using domain names associated with
>> ASF-owned trademarks.
>
> It's hard for me to understand this one as the extensions site is down
> and so I can't see any examples. Are you saying the ASF extensions
> site would have a webpage with a paypal link (or similar), where the
> payment goes to some third party maintaining the extension?
>
> This one is a little harder. On the one hand I would say that as long
> as the trademark policy was enforced for these extensions then it
> would be fine. On the other hand, if the AOO PPMC is deciding who
> can/can not be listed there is a potential for conflict here. I'd like
> to get further guidance on this.
>
>> I still happen to
>> think, for other reasons that I've stated, that opening this up and
>> encouraging the broader ecosystem is the better way to do it, rather
>> than enforcing an Apache stranglehold.
>
> HA!!! I see you chose to throw the inflammatory language back at me,
> fair enough ;-)
>
> Seriously though, I have no objection to this being the outcome of
> this conversation. I agree there are some clear advantages. I just
> want to be certain that conclusion is drawn from the right facts.
>
>> But in parallel with that
>> discussion let's establish the policy change possibilities, so we're
>> not arguing on top of mush.
>
> Agreed. I remind the community of the purpose of this thread, from my
> first mail:
>
> "Once you've digested and debated the offer from Sourceforge the
> community needs to come up with a couple of paragraphs indicating a
> desired route forwards and reasons for it. I will try and attend the
> appropriate board meeting in order to answer any questions that arise."

I want to take the chance here to say again we're not looking or
exclusivity, just offering to help. As I wrote earlier, we can state
it formally, providing the ASF and AOO with all necessary compliances
and assurances.

Roberto


> We've gone a very long way to coming to those couple of paras, this
> policy issue was a minor diversion that I think is now over.
>
> Ross
>
>
> --
> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
====
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