incubator-ooo-dev mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Graham Lauder <>
Subject Re: Moving ahead with the AOO logo and rebranding
Date Sun, 08 Jan 2012 21:46:16 GMT
On Monday 09 Jan 2012 06:51:26 Rob Weir wrote:

> > 
> > Define the look and feel first, the logo should fit that.
> > Answers first:
> > What is our target Market
> > What is our aesthetic,
> > how do we want the market to percieve us.
> > How do they percieve us now,
> > do we want to change that perception,
> > 
> > This is not about what the people on this list consider is aesthetically
> > pleasing to them, but what the people who are going to download the
> > software, think is best.
> It is useful to make a distinction between:
> 1) How we make decisions in this project
> and
> 2) How gather information to inform our individual opinions.
> In the end decision making in the project will be a factor of many
> things, including who has the initiative to do the work.   We make
> decisions by consensus wherever possible (including "lazy consensus")
> and by voting where necessary.  Our opinions might be fed by surveys
> and quantitative data, or by experience, or by debate on this list, or
> by a myriad of other factors.
> So in the end, yes, the decision will be made by the opinions of those
> on the list, specifically the PMC members.  And in the end the success
> of the project will depend on us making a large number of right
> decisions, and a relatively small number of bad decision.  But how we
> decide is as important as what we decide.

indeed, you are stating the obvious that is true for any pyramid shaped 

> > I would like to see a selection of branding elements, in particular:
> > Pallet, logo and name, several of each and then survey our "customers"
> > via the announce list to find their preferences.  Any brand suggestions
> > should include all of the above including an explanation that defines
> > the aesthetic and where it positions the product in terms of the market
> > as well as target market.
> I believe that the value of the logo is even more critical for those
> who are potential users (the largest segment of the "target market"),
> and therefore are not on our announce list.

I made the point earlier that the announce@ooo list is our widest reach with 
the shortest lead time.  I also made the point that going off that list to the 
wider audience, "a consummation d'voutly to be wished.." would cost money that 
we don't have, or a large community on the ground, also that we don't have, we 
have to make the best of a bad lot.  So you're not telling me anything I don't 
already know.

 I made the offer to pick up a clipboard and do the hard yards, something that 
is a waste of time in isolation.  To get a true sampling it has to be done 
world wide at around the same time.  I asked if anyone else was prepared to do 
it as well and was met with a deafening silence.  So announce@ooo is the next 
best track and it's something I can do solo.     

> > Voting on the list is a particularly bad and limiting way to make these
> > sorts of decisions, especially without any research whatsoever.
> I agree that research can only help us make better decisions.
> > It has been itterated on a number of occasions that  Apache is about
> > building communities, what better way to bring the community together
> > than giving them the opportunity to participate in a meaningful way and
> > demonstrating to them that the project actually cares about their
> > opinions.
> I think that you are demonstrating just fine that anyone can join this
> list and give their opinions.

That is the sort of patronising attitude that will keep this community small.  
Imagine what it would be like if even a single percentage point of all OOo 
users joined this list and voiced their opinions.  The operation of a List 
based decision process is predicated and relies on the user community staying 
away.  Lists do not scale well, especially in an unsophisticated user 
community, a thousand messages a day would severely limit the ability for this 
list, and thus community, to function in any meaningful way.      

> > I've put together a prenotification to go out on the announce list to ask
> > people to participate in a survey and I'm putting together some questions
> > for the respondents to that mail to answer. This would be a good
> > apportunity to run this past a wider audience.
> It would be great if you posted your drafts to this list and/or the wiki.

My apologies, I thought I had.

I'll stick to the wikl, too much gets lost on the maillist and I keep having 
to repeat myself.


View raw message