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From Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net>
Subject Re: [PRIVATE] RE: [WWW] Changeover is Close - Final Tasks!
Date Fri, 23 Dec 2011 03:10:24 GMT
I'm trying to tell you the behavior that I have observed.

I'm trying to tell you where the 404s are and where they will appear.

I'll attempt to fix the 404s that will be new, I won't address the 404s that will continue
to exist. OK?

Good night.

On Dec 22, 2011, at 6:58 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:

> My questions are really simple.  There is no deep technical anything behind them.  It's
all about what will be the observable behavior.  Not how, but what.
> 
> Showing me code is meaningless to me. I have no idea about servlets and can't help you.
 I'm a static web guy.
> 
> I'm giving up now.  Che sarĂ  sarĂ .  
> 
> - Dennis
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Fisher [mailto:dave2wave@comcast.net] 
> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 18:13
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [WWW] Changeover is Close - Final Tasks!
> 
> Hi Dennis,
> 
> One more try. I may have been somewhat dense earlier today.
> 
> On Dec 22, 2011, at 2:13 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> 
>> I'm not talking about what www.openoffice.org does now, but what it will do when
it serves up ooo-site.apach.org.  Isn't that the plan?
> 
> The plan is twofold.
> 
> (1) For ooo-site.apache.org to do what www.openoffice.org does now with exceptions -
it doesn't do servlets and logins related to individual openoffice.org accounts.
> 
> (2) For openoffice.org to continue to do what it does now.
> 
> 
>> 
>> I know that what www.openoffice.org does now.
> 
> What http://www.openoffice.org/projects/www/lists does now is return Kenai's version
of a 404. ooo-site does the same. We don't need to redirect that url.
> 
> We should be redirecting /servlets/* in ooo-site, it is not a one-to-one map to openoffice.org/projects/<project>/lists.
> 
> The servlet urls look like this.
> 
> contact.html:24:    <a href="/nonav/servlets/HelpTOC">Get Help</a> section.</li>
> mail_list.html:91:      <td class="alt6"><a href="/servlets/SearchList?listName=users">Search</a></td>
> mail_list.html:102:      <td class="alt6"><a href="/servlets/SearchList?listName=announce">Search</a></td>
> mail_list.html:119:      <td class="alt6"><a href="/servlets/SearchList?listName=discuss">Search</a></td>
> mail_list.html:131:      <td class="alt6"><a href="/servlets/SearchList?listName=social">Search</a></td>
> mail_list.html:155:      <td class="alt6"><a href="/servlets/SearchList?listName=dev">Search</a></td>
> mail_list.html:165:      <td class="alt6"><a href="/servlets/SearchList?listName=allfeatures">Search</a></td>
> mail_list.html:175:      <td class="alt6"><a href="/servlets/SearchList?listName=allcvs">Search</a></td>
> mail_list.html:185:      <td class="alt6"><a href="/servlets/SearchList?listName=allbugs">Search</a></td>
> mail_list.html:194:      <td class="alt6"><a href="/servlets/SearchList?listName=allhg">Search</a></td>
> mail_list.html:195:      <td class="alt6"><a href="/servlets/SummarizeList?listName=allhg">Browse
archives</a></td>
> mail_list.html:205:      <td class="alt6"><a href="/servlets/SearchList?listName=interface-announce">Search</a></td>
> mail_list.html:216:      <td class="alt6"><a href="/servlets/SearchList?listName=interface-discuss">Search</a></td>
> project_tools.html:3:    <div><a href="/servlets/ProjectHome">Project home</a></div>
> project_tools.html:4:    <div><a href="/servlets/ProjectMemberList">Membership</a></div>
> project_tools.html:7:    <div><a href="/servlets/ProjectNewsList">Announcements</a></div>
 
> project_tools.html:8:    <div>   <a href="/servlets/ProjectMailingListList">Mailing
lists</a> </div>
> project_tools.html:11:    <div><a href="/servlets/ProjectDocumentList">Documents
&amp; files</a></div>
> project_tools.html:15:    <div><a href="/servlets/ProjectIssues">Issue tracker</a></div>
> index.html:190:					<li class="doc_tip" id="join" onmouseover="showtip(this.id)" onmouseout="hidetip()"><a
href="http://api.openoffice.org/servlets/ProjectMembershipRequest">Join the project</a></li>
> index.html:191:					<li class="doc_tip" id="mailinglists" onmouseover="showtip(this.id)"
onmouseout="hidetip()"><a href="http://api.openoffice.org/servlets/ProjectMailingListList">Mailing
Lists</a></li>
> index.html:310:					<li  class="doc_tip" id="searchproj" onmouseover="showtip(this.id)"
onmouseout="hidetip()"><a href="http://api.openoffice.org/servlets/Search?resultsPerPage=40&amp;scope=project">Search
the project data</a></li>
> listrules.html:82:http://api.openoffice.org/servlets/ProjectDownloadList
> listrules.html:151:http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/Join
> project_tools.html:3:  <div> <a href="/servlets/ProjectHome">Project home</a>
</div>
> project_tools.html:4:  <div> <a href="/servlets/ProjectMemberList">Membership</a>
</div>
> project_tools.html:7:  <div> <a href="/servlets/ProjectNewsList">Announcements</a>
</div>
> project_tools.html:8:  <div> <a href="/servlets/ProjectMailingListList">Mailing
lists</a> </div>
> project_tools.html:11:  <div> <a href="/servlets/ProjectDocumentList">Documents
&amp; files</a> </div>
> project_tools.html:16:  <div> <a href="/servlets/ProjectIssues">Issue tracker</a>
</div>
> 
> If someone would explain how to map these to functions on openoffice.org/projects/ we
can make the changes to the ooo-site hrefs with redirects if needed.
> 
> Is this better?
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
> 
>> The only speculation I *had* to make is that ooo-site.apache.org is going to be served
up as www.openoffice.org, since it hasn't happened yet.
>> 
>> I know you are frustrated about this.  I am too.  A common set of tacit understandings
is missing.  And getting to an explicit understandings seems to be beyond our reach.  Sorry.
 
>> 
>> - Dennis
>> 
>> PS: Showing me curl responses for 404s and 302s doesn't help.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dave Fisher [mailto:dave2wave@comcast.net] 
>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 13:28
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [WWW] Changeover is Close - Final Tasks!
>> 
>> On Dec 22, 2011, at 1:09 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>> 
>>> All I know is that 
>>> 
>>> http://openoffice.org/projects/FOO/lists/ have important content related to the
lists that are still operating.
>> 
>>> 
>>> http://ooo-site.apache.org/projects/FOO/lists/ 404.
>>> 
>>> That's not a speculation.
>> 
>> Go to http://www.openoffice.org/projects/www/lists and tell me what you get.
>> 
>> wave@minotaur:~$ curl http://www.openoffice.org/projects/www/lists
>> 
>> 
>> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
>> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
>> <head>
>> 
>> .... 
>> 
>> <div class="contentPadding">
>> <h2 class="pageTitle">Not Found</h2>
>> <!-- This file lives in public/404.html -->
>> <div style="padding: 10px 0 10px 0;">
>>   The page you were looking for doesn't exist.<br/>
>>   You may have mistyped the address or the page may have moved.
>> </div>
>> <a href="#" onclick="history.back(); return false;"><span class="bullet">&laquo;</span>&nbsp;back</a>
>> &nbsp;|&nbsp;
>> <a href="/">home&nbsp;<span class="bullet">&raquo;</span></a>
>> </div>
>> 
>> ...
>> </body>
>> </html>
>> 
>> You will then see that ooo-site does not need any redirection for these urls. Users
do not have any expectation other than a 404.
>> 
>>> 
>>> So if you are only redirecting http://openoffice.org/ (or its index page) to
http://www.openoffice.org, no deep linking into openoffice.org will redirect, is that right?
>> 
>> KENAI does this redirect, not us. We do NOT need to redirect anything in the http://openoffice.org/projects/
path. We are leaving that legacy behind.
>> 
>>> And only http://www.openoffice.org/ ... URLs will see ooo-site.apache.org/ ...
paths, is that that the idea?
>> 
>> They will have the same IP.
>> 
>>> 
>>> OK, so that explains why there is no worry about recursion if ooo-site.apache.org/projects/FOO/lists/
redirects to openoffice.org/projects/FOO/lists/ as Joe suggests.  I prefer that part of it
also.
>> 
>> There is no worry because we just don't need it. I won't ask Joe to do it.
>> 
>>> 
>>> I know how to do that on my own web sites, whether using .htaccess or meta elements
in page headers. For ooo-site, not so much.
>> 
>> For the future, meta elements should work just fine.
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> And I am now going off list for a time while I sort out other work.
>> 
>> Me too. A lot to TRY to convince you that there is no worry and no need.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>>> 
>>> - Dennis 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Dave Fisher [mailto:dave2wave@comcast.net] 
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 12:42
>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: [WWW] Changeover is Close - Final Tasks!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2011, at 12:32 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Now I'm even more confused.
>>>> 
>>>> Will http://openoffice.org/projects/www/lists/ still find the list pages
or will it redirect to http://www.openoffice.org/projects/www/lists/ and 404, since ooo-site.apache.org/projects/www/lists/
has nothing there?
>>> 
>>> No it won't redirect. It only redirects at the first level.
>>> 
>>> http://www.openoffice.org/projects/www/lists/ does not exist at Kenai it gives
a 404. Nothing to worry about.
>>> 
>>> The pattern is http://openoffice.org/projects/FOO/lists/
>>> 
>>> Please try these urls in your browser before you speculate.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Dave
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> - Dennis
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Dave Fisher [mailto:dave2wave@comcast.net] 
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 12:19
>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>> Cc: dennis.hamilton@acm.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [WWW] Changeover is Close - Final Tasks!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Dec 22, 2011, at 11:51 AM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> But we're NOT cutting over "openoffice.org"
>>>>> now so I don't see what the hemming and hawing
>>>>> is about.  We're doing "www.openoffice.org",
>>>>> aren't we?
>>>> 
>>>> Dennis missed our discussion of this trick.
>>>> 
>>>> If a user goes to http://openoffice.org/ then Kenai very nicely redirects
them to http://www.openoffice.org/.
>>>> 
>>>> Website migration is decoupled from the following other issues:
>>>> - Mailing List cutover. (ooo-site should avoid allowing users to subscribe
to the old lists.)
>>>> - @openoffice.org forwarder cut-off.
>>>> - openoffice.org ids and extensions and templates access.
>>>> 
>>>> There are a bunch of servlets around login and project mailing lists. These
will break. They will need to be removed, but I don't think that should stop us from migration.
>>>> 
>>>> I do agree that we should make the old legacy visible on the new site. I've
asked for someone to look into /mail_list.html. Links to http://openoffice.org/projects/ and
http://openoffice.org/projects/www/lists/. would be welcome additions. CTR people!
> 
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Dave
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>> From: Dennis E. Hamilton <himself@orcmid.com>
>>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; 'Joe Schaefer' <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>

>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 2:46 PM
>>>>>> Subject: RE: [WWW] Changeover is Close - Final Tasks!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It has to do with this page and all of the other pages like it for
the lists that each of the OpenOffice.org projects (and NL projects) have: 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> <http://openoffice.org/projects/www/lists>.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If you have an OpenOffice.org login, you will see Subscribe and (if
already subscribed) Unsubscribe buttons for each list on that page.  Also, the archives are
accessible from those pages in a browser-friendly form.  This is how one can read the list
using a browser and there is even a way to post to the list via the web interface.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> While some people aren't aware that there is this one-stop arrangement
and use the e-mail means of controlling their subscription, others rely on this, including
TJ for administrative functions.  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This aspect of the mailing-list service will go away with the cut-over
of the web site.  There is no reminder or announcement about that.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> - Dennis
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Joe Schaefer [mailto:joe_schaefer@yahoo.com] 
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 10:59
>>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WWW] Changeover is Close - Final Tasks!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Why does one have to do with the other?
>>>>>> We are not cutting over the MX record for
>>>>>> openoffice.org now are we?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> [ ... ]
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 


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