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From "Dennis E. Hamilton" <>
Subject [PRIVATE] RE: [WWW] Changeover is Close - Final Tasks!
Date Fri, 23 Dec 2011 02:58:22 GMT
My questions are really simple.  There is no deep technical anything behind them.  It's all
about what will be the observable behavior.  Not how, but what.

Showing me code is meaningless to me. I have no idea about servlets and can't help you.  I'm
a static web guy.

I'm giving up now.  Che sarĂ  sarĂ .  

 - Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Fisher [] 
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 18:13
Subject: Re: [WWW] Changeover is Close - Final Tasks!

Hi Dennis,

One more try. I may have been somewhat dense earlier today.

On Dec 22, 2011, at 2:13 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:

> I'm not talking about what does now, but what it will do when it serves
up  Isn't that the plan?

The plan is twofold.

(1) For to do what does now with exceptions - it doesn't
do servlets and logins related to individual accounts.

(2) For to continue to do what it does now.

> I know that what does now.

What does now is return Kenai's version of a
404. ooo-site does the same. We don't need to redirect that url.

We should be redirecting /servlets/* in ooo-site, it is not a one-to-one map to<project>/lists.

The servlet urls look like this.

contact.html:24:    <a href="/nonav/servlets/HelpTOC">Get Help</a> section.</li>
mail_list.html:91:      <td class="alt6"><a href="/servlets/SearchList?listName=users">Search</a></td>
mail_list.html:102:      <td class="alt6"><a href="/servlets/SearchList?listName=announce">Search</a></td>
mail_list.html:119:      <td class="alt6"><a href="/servlets/SearchList?listName=discuss">Search</a></td>
mail_list.html:131:      <td class="alt6"><a href="/servlets/SearchList?listName=social">Search</a></td>
mail_list.html:155:      <td class="alt6"><a href="/servlets/SearchList?listName=dev">Search</a></td>
mail_list.html:165:      <td class="alt6"><a href="/servlets/SearchList?listName=allfeatures">Search</a></td>
mail_list.html:175:      <td class="alt6"><a href="/servlets/SearchList?listName=allcvs">Search</a></td>
mail_list.html:185:      <td class="alt6"><a href="/servlets/SearchList?listName=allbugs">Search</a></td>
mail_list.html:194:      <td class="alt6"><a href="/servlets/SearchList?listName=allhg">Search</a></td>
mail_list.html:195:      <td class="alt6"><a href="/servlets/SummarizeList?listName=allhg">Browse
mail_list.html:205:      <td class="alt6"><a href="/servlets/SearchList?listName=interface-announce">Search</a></td>
mail_list.html:216:      <td class="alt6"><a href="/servlets/SearchList?listName=interface-discuss">Search</a></td>
project_tools.html:3:    <div><a href="/servlets/ProjectHome">Project home</a></div>
project_tools.html:4:    <div><a href="/servlets/ProjectMemberList">Membership</a></div>
project_tools.html:7:    <div><a href="/servlets/ProjectNewsList">Announcements</a></div>
project_tools.html:8:    <div>   <a href="/servlets/ProjectMailingListList">Mailing
lists</a> </div>
project_tools.html:11:    <div><a href="/servlets/ProjectDocumentList">Documents
&amp; files</a></div>
project_tools.html:15:    <div><a href="/servlets/ProjectIssues">Issue tracker</a></div>
index.html:190:					<li class="doc_tip" id="join" onmouseover="showtip(" onmouseout="hidetip()"><a
href="">Join the project</a></li>
index.html:191:					<li class="doc_tip" id="mailinglists" onmouseover="showtip("
onmouseout="hidetip()"><a href="">Mailing
index.html:310:					<li  class="doc_tip" id="searchproj" onmouseover="showtip("
onmouseout="hidetip()"><a href=";scope=project">Search
the project data</a></li>
project_tools.html:3:  <div> <a href="/servlets/ProjectHome">Project home</a>
project_tools.html:4:  <div> <a href="/servlets/ProjectMemberList">Membership</a>
project_tools.html:7:  <div> <a href="/servlets/ProjectNewsList">Announcements</a>
project_tools.html:8:  <div> <a href="/servlets/ProjectMailingListList">Mailing
lists</a> </div>
project_tools.html:11:  <div> <a href="/servlets/ProjectDocumentList">Documents
&amp; files</a> </div>
project_tools.html:16:  <div> <a href="/servlets/ProjectIssues">Issue tracker</a>

If someone would explain how to map these to functions on we can
make the changes to the ooo-site hrefs with redirects if needed.

Is this better?


>  The only speculation I *had* to make is that is going to be served
up as, since it hasn't happened yet.
> I know you are frustrated about this.  I am too.  A common set of tacit understandings
is missing.  And getting to an explicit understandings seems to be beyond our reach.  Sorry.
> - Dennis
> PS: Showing me curl responses for 404s and 302s doesn't help.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Fisher [] 
> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 13:28
> To:
> Subject: Re: [WWW] Changeover is Close - Final Tasks!
> On Dec 22, 2011, at 1:09 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>> All I know is that 
>> have important content related to the lists
that are still operating.
>> 404.
>> That's not a speculation.
> Go to and tell me what you get.
> wave@minotaur:~$ curl
> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "">
> <html xmlns="">
>  <head>
> .... 
> <div class="contentPadding">
>  <h2 class="pageTitle">Not Found</h2>
>  <!-- This file lives in public/404.html -->
>  <div style="padding: 10px 0 10px 0;">
>    The page you were looking for doesn't exist.<br/>
>    You may have mistyped the address or the page may have moved.
>  </div>
>  <a href="#" onclick="history.back(); return false;"><span class="bullet">&laquo;</span>&nbsp;back</a>
>  &nbsp;|&nbsp;
>  <a href="/">home&nbsp;<span class="bullet">&raquo;</span></a>
> </div>
> ...
> </body>
> </html>
> You will then see that ooo-site does not need any redirection for these urls. Users do
not have any expectation other than a 404.
>> So if you are only redirecting (or its index page) to,
no deep linking into will redirect, is that right?
> KENAI does this redirect, not us. We do NOT need to redirect anything in the
path. We are leaving that legacy behind.
>> And only ... URLs will see ... paths,
is that that the idea?
> They will have the same IP.
>> OK, so that explains why there is no worry about recursion if
redirects to as Joe suggests.  I prefer that part of it
> There is no worry because we just don't need it. I won't ask Joe to do it.
>> I know how to do that on my own web sites, whether using .htaccess or meta elements
in page headers. For ooo-site, not so much.
> For the future, meta elements should work just fine.
>> And I am now going off list for a time while I sort out other work.
> Me too. A lot to TRY to convince you that there is no worry and no need.
> Regards,
> Dave
>> - Dennis 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dave Fisher [] 
>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 12:42
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: [WWW] Changeover is Close - Final Tasks!
>> On Dec 22, 2011, at 12:32 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>>> Now I'm even more confused.
>>> Will still find the list pages or will
it redirect to and 404, since
has nothing there?
>> No it won't redirect. It only redirects at the first level.
>> does not exist at Kenai it gives a
404. Nothing to worry about.
>> The pattern is
>> Please try these urls in your browser before you speculate.
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>> - Dennis
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Dave Fisher [] 
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 12:19
>>> To:
>>> Cc:
>>> Subject: Re: [WWW] Changeover is Close - Final Tasks!
>>> On Dec 22, 2011, at 11:51 AM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>>> But we're NOT cutting over ""
>>>> now so I don't see what the hemming and hawing
>>>> is about.  We're doing "",
>>>> aren't we?
>>> Dennis missed our discussion of this trick.
>>> If a user goes to then Kenai very nicely redirects them
>>> Website migration is decoupled from the following other issues:
>>> - Mailing List cutover. (ooo-site should avoid allowing users to subscribe to
the old lists.)
>>> - forwarder cut-off.
>>> - ids and extensions and templates access.
>>> There are a bunch of servlets around login and project mailing lists. These will
break. They will need to be removed, but I don't think that should stop us from migration.
>>> I do agree that we should make the old legacy visible on the new site. I've asked
for someone to look into /mail_list.html. Links to and
would be welcome additions. CTR people!

>>> Regards,
>>> Dave
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Dennis E. Hamilton <>
>>>>> To:; 'Joe Schaefer' <>

>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 2:46 PM
>>>>> Subject: RE: [WWW] Changeover is Close - Final Tasks!
>>>>> It has to do with this page and all of the other pages like it for the
lists that each of the projects (and NL projects) have: 
>>>>> <>.
>>>>> If you have an login, you will see Subscribe and (if already
subscribed) Unsubscribe buttons for each list on that page.  Also, the archives are accessible
from those pages in a browser-friendly form.  This is how one can read the list using a browser
and there is even a way to post to the list via the web interface.
>>>>> While some people aren't aware that there is this one-stop arrangement
and use the e-mail means of controlling their subscription, others rely on this, including
TJ for administrative functions.  
>>>>> This aspect of the mailing-list service will go away with the cut-over
of the web site.  There is no reminder or announcement about that.
>>>>> - Dennis
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Joe Schaefer [] 
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 10:59
>>>>> To:
>>>>> Subject: Re: [WWW] Changeover is Close - Final Tasks!
>>>>> Why does one have to do with the other?
>>>>> We are not cutting over the MX record for
>>>>> now are we?
>>>>> [ ... ]

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