From ooo-dev-return-8403-apmail-incubator-ooo-dev-archive=incubator.apache.org@incubator.apache.org Thu Nov 3 16:36:50 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-incubator-ooo-dev-archive@minotaur.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-ooo-dev-archive@minotaur.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B16D37B57 for ; Thu, 3 Nov 2011 16:36:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 52300 invoked by uid 500); 3 Nov 2011 16:36:50 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-ooo-dev-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 52248 invoked by uid 500); 3 Nov 2011 16:36:50 -0000 Mailing-List: contact ooo-dev-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 52240 invoked by uid 99); 3 Nov 2011 16:36:50 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 03 Nov 2011 16:36:50 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=FREEMAIL_FROM,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: domain of dave2wave@comcast.net designates 76.96.27.212 as permitted sender) Received: from [76.96.27.212] (HELO qmta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net) (76.96.27.212) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 03 Nov 2011 16:36:43 +0000 Received: from omta05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.43]) by qmta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id sfu81h00G0vp7WLAEgcFaw; Thu, 03 Nov 2011 16:36:15 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.7] ([67.180.51.144]) by omta05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id sgSM1h00C36gVt78RgSNSS; Thu, 03 Nov 2011 16:26:22 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Subject: Web Strategy using the Apache CMS [Was: Re: request] From: Dave Fisher In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 09:36:19 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <4EB15EDE.8000109@wp.pl> <20111102172637.GA26757@daniel3.local> <3D29A82F-4D8B-4765-87CE-4B32F25A5199@comcast.net> <4EB24DEB.1020302@googlemail.com> <20111103085905.GA28090@localhost> <3938B099-2B54-4672-A5BD-00B66F7AC6E1@comcast.net> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Hi Rob, In addition to thinking through the strategy for openoffice.org we = should be thinking about the podling site's main page and how we really = want to organize and personalize that for developers. For example, BZ = and SVN feeds. Wiki changes. Build tips ... The left nav is getting heavy and has always been very ad hoc. Just some = thoughts. More in line in response, but think both sites as you read. On Nov 3, 2011, at 8:51 AM, Rob Weir wrote: > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Dave Fisher = wrote: >>=20 >> On Nov 3, 2011, at 4:28 AM, Rob Weir wrote: >>=20 >>> On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:59 AM, Ariel Constenla-Haile >>> wrote: >>>> On Thu, Nov 03, 2011 at 09:16:43AM +0100, J=FCrgen Schmidt wrote: >>>>>>> There was a large effort to handle the redirector to the = different NL. NL >>>>>>> are not translations of the homepage are different communities = in itself. >>>>>>> Something that was governance with the NLC and other structures. >>>>=20 >>>> N-L Projects had Project Leads >>>> http://projects.openoffice.org/native-lang.html >>>>=20 >>>> You can read some rules in http://native-lang.openoffice.org/ >>>>=20 >>>> Basically, N-L Projects were managed by Project Leads. >>>> IMO fortunately in The Apache Way there is no place for Project = Leads >>>> anymore. >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> We are a single project. But someone can still volunteer to "take = the >>> lead" on something. So Dave Fisher took the lead in getting the OOo >>> website moved over to Apache. We all acknowledge his enthusiasm and >>> skill in this area, the generosity of his time. No one appointed him >>> "Webmaster" or "Lead" for that effort. But he is the de facto lead >>> for that effort because he demonstrated leadership and volunteered = to >>> lead that effort. But next week it could be someone else doing the >>> same task. It is very fluid. >>=20 >> Thanks for this. I've documented the process both in the svn archive = and on the website. I am very willing to share. Changes are welcome. >>=20 >> For the website I'll give others credit for starting to move the NL = projects: >>=20 >> - Raphael Bircher did the DE port from kenai and provided the svn = address for Kenai. >> - Marcus worked in the DE site and with Downloads. >> - Kay is the one who did most of the initial migrations of the NL = sites. There was trouble and I am filling from behind. >> - Alexandro has made a couple of tweaks to the ES site. >>=20 >> I hope I haven't forgotten anyone. >>=20 >>>=20 >>> I think OOo was more vertical and hierarchical in how the project = was >>> structured, with formal roles and leads that defined domains of >>> exclusive control. There is nothing wrong with that. Most >>> corporations are like that. Apache projects are more horizontal. >>> There are no predefined roles. But we naturally have different >>> interests and skills and our efforts naturally sort themselves >>> according to those preferences. And these interests might change = over >>> time. But there are no formal appointed leads. It is more about >>> coordination than control. >>=20 >> Whether or not we continue NL sites when the switchover occurs is a = decision for the project. >>=20 >> Whether or not translations occur in each NL site or as translations = of key pages in www & the rest depends on whether or not there are = individuals who are committed to doing and maintaining the translations = - or the NL sites. >>=20 >> The experience of migrating the NL sites is leading me towards the = translation approach. >>=20 >=20 > We could also take a mixed approach: >=20 > 1) NL versions of the main public welcome site (xx.openoffice.org) are > translations of the main www.openoffice.org page. We try to maintain > this in a coordinated fashion. So a common look & feel, common > branding placement, common content, a way for the PPMC to push out > timely notices across the NL sites, etc. >=20 > 2) But each NL site has a panel for NL-specific notices and updates. > This could include links to pages with additional specific content > targeted to that NL. For example, the Arabic and Hebrew sites might > have a special page on how bidirectional text is supported in > OpenOffice. The Japanese website could have specific FAQs on things > like support of IME's, etc. Local AOOo-related events could also be > there. Take a look at www.apache.org. The page is published every hour and it = updates several different feeds. It would be possible to show a NL project specific feed to that = translation, also language specific links. These would be mixed and there might not be an "en" version. The user = would get the appropriate page according to their "ACCEPT-LANG" > With an approach like that we get the best of both worlds: a > consistent message for our users, as well as flexibility for relevant > NL-specific content. I will continue the migration of the NL sites. A goal will be to examine = and categorize the existing NL main pages to note all features. See ja.openoffice.org and es.openoffice.org for different types of feed = and personalization ideas. See ooo-site.apache.org/pt-br for a site that is just a link to = broffice.org. >=20 > If we wanted to get really fancy, we could notice that language is but > one dimension by which we could personalize the site's user > experience. Someone, when they first visit, might say that they are a > student, or an engineer, or a home user, or a corporate user, etc., > and we could feature content recommended for them based on their > profile, e.g., new templates, plugins, FAQ's, etc. This could be done > manually, e.g., someone tags a message as appropriate for "all > english-speaking students" and it shows up when they visit. Or it > could be automated via the various collaborative filtering algorithms. > E-commerce sites like Amazon.com use this all over. But the > techniques are equally applicable to us and our users. We would need some type of javascript / cookie / url selector ala = download.cgi and the download buttons. The Apache CMS does provide for a cgi-bin directory. >=20 > Someday. First we stand, then walk, then run. We're starting to > stand up now. But I think having a high level vision for website > personalization would help guide us toward future possibilities. And > a template-like approach of fixed content which is translated, and > then zones (panels,
's, whatever) of content that can be inserted > on a targeted basis, would give us a lot of flexibility. I'll be at Apachecon ... Regards, Dave >=20 >> OTH - Communities have built sites and they have an interest in the = results. >>=20 >> If we decide to change to a translation approach it will still be = good to have the existing OOo in a tag in the ooo-site tree. That way it = can be recovered. >>=20 >>>=20 >>> That's my view of how it works. Others may be a different view of >>> this. That is expected. No one has exclusive control over saying >>> what the Apache Way means. >>=20 >> My purpose is to enable the community. If I overstep then pull my = leash (gently please) >>=20 >> Best Regards, >> Dave >>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -Rob >>>=20 >>>>>>> NL like >>>>>>> ES, FR and JA are structurally different to the EN homepage. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> There was a whole body of work so that it was easy for people to = locate >>>>>>> their NLC. Might be a good idea to see how much this change from = the >>>>>>> ooo-site and the openofficeorg tree. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I've found that each NL site has very much their own main page. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> ES is especially different. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I don't have a favorite, each has a certain charm and style. >>>>=20 >>>> [...] >>>>=20 >>>>>> The concern I have about other language versions within the = podling >>>>>> site that they will diverge. Someone will change the en version = and >>>>>> won't be able to change the zh, ja, or de versions. The = maintainer of >>>>>> a version may move on. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> The existing NL sites are proof of this divergence. The DE site = is >>>>>> very large and also quite out of date. I think that community = moved >>>>>> onto the wiki some time ago. >>>>>=20 >>>>> or the maintainer moved to LibreOffice. Anyway as i mentioned = before >>>>> i would prefer to have translated pages with the same content = only. >>>>> It makes things much easier. >>>>=20 >>>> +1 >>>> as you said before, NL project will be better o the wiki, and let = the >>>> $LANG.openoffice.org be just a translation of www.openoffice.org, = with >>>> the same look and feel as the main site. >>>>=20 >>>> Regards >>>> -- >>>> Ariel Constenla-Haile >>>> La Plata, Argentina >>>>=20 >>=20 >>=20