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From Dave Fisher <>
Subject Re: [WWW][Policy] Participate! - Rewriting
Date Sun, 27 Nov 2011 22:11:25 GMT

On Nov 27, 2011, at 1:38 PM, Rob Weir wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:33 PM, Dave Fisher <> wrote:
>> On Nov 27, 2011, at 12:47 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Rob Weir <> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
>>>> <> wrote:
>>>>> Redirects are easy once the live-site is our site and it can be figured
out how to add HTML <head> meta tags that the Apache CMS allows.  Also, there is always
the good old .htaccess scripting of a redirect (again, working around the CMS I suppose).
>>>>> It should be done on at least on ooo-site even if it has no effect until
>>>>> There is no reason to break a link on speculation when it is easy to
avoid breaking it, or having the break be temporary until cut-over.  (I'd bet the page has
been search-indexed and the "your download is starting, thank you for downloading" pages link
to donation/contribution points.)
>>>> Dennis, I have absolutely no objections to any redirect rules that you
>>>> are volunteering to implement.  I, however, do not think they are
>>>> worth while, so I will not be spending any time on them.
>>> And something else to consider:  without actual data your chances of
>>> guessing what are the significant incoming links are is practically
>>> nil.  Since we have not enabled Google Analytics on the site, we
>>> continue to lack such data.
>>> Some of the external links are to the kind of content we are already
>>> throwing out.
>>> For example: points to
>>> It is entirely irrelevant to our work at Apache, but do we keep it for
>>> historical reasons?
>>> If we're not willing to enable GA, then our next best bet would be to
>>> monitor the httpd logs for 404 errors.  A regular report of page not
>>> found errors, sorted by URL and indicating the referrer, will give us
>>> a targeted list of places were a redirect will help.  Otherwise we're
>>> not going to have much luck with the  **2.6 million** external links
>>> that come into pages.
>> The plan is to redirect with wildcards to specific pages. See my other email.
>> I am thinking we will do that type of redirect to most of the legacy
site. It might make sense to ask Apache Infra for a third Apache CMS tree called ooo-archive
and move all of the legacy that is either hopelessly out of date, currently without a people
to support it, or irrelevant to OOo under Apache.
>> I want to be careful about this as a balancing act of displacing users will need
to be considered. Each page that is a target of a redirect will need to be carefully edited
to allow that most people arriving at that page will feel lost. They won't be getting what
they expect and it might not be in their native language.
> How will you know if you are doing this well or poorly?  If, due to a
> typographical error on a redirect rule, how would you know if you
> "lost" 10,000 pages?   That's my concern.  We're trying to migrate
> content with 2.6 million external links to it based on eyeballing a
> list of redirects.  That might get you 90% of the way there.  But 10%
> is still a lot of errors.

I'm pretty good at doing the eyeballs - I've got four of them with progressive lenses - and
I think we will have less than 300 rules. I will put all the redirects on the CWiki page I
started. I am sure we will have other eyeballs like Joe's and everyone looking at Infrastructure

You've also made some useful suggestions about scanning and testing for broken internal links.
This is actually a greater concern to me. IIRC you suggested listing all the hrefs, sorting
for duplicates and then testing each.

> Maybe you can get Infra@ to archive http logs for the week before and
> the week after the migration?

Sure Infra can help us look for 404s from the first week after, but I don't know how the week
before would help - the logs are at Oracle and different stuff will be broken.

To address your concern we should look specifically at what a 404 error page should look like
and how to address this.

Go to and you will see trouble with how bugzilla was migrated without the
qa project in front of it.


> -Rob
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>>> -Rob
>>>>> Finally, it is my understanding that cut-over of the static site is now
at our option and the AOOo has reasonable discretion with regard to timing.  It seems that
cut-over can be done as soon as ooo-site is ready enough to be the new live site.  And the
subdomains don't all have to cut over together and everything will still work.  A progressive,
rolling cut-over might even be in the cards.
>>>>>  - Dennis
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Rob Weir []
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 10:11
>>>>> To:
>>>>> Subject: Re: [WWW][Policy] Participate! - Rewriting
>>>>> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 6:16 PM, Kay Schenk <>
>>>>>> [ ... ]
>>>>>> How about if we don't hear any major objections by say, Dec. 1, I'll
>>>>>> ahead and make this change (redirect contributing/index.html to this).
>>>>>> Nothing is in concrete, we can always go back or do something else.
>>>>> I don't know if we need to do an actual HTTP-level redirect.    I
>>>>> don't think there are many external links to the OOo contributing
>>>>> page.  It would be sufficient if we just change the link to point to
>>>>> the project contributing page.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> MzK
>>>>>> "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged
>>>>>>  by the way its animals are treated."
>>>>>>                              -- Mohandas Gandhi

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