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From Kay Schenk <kay.sch...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Rationalizing two OpenOffice websites
Date Thu, 24 Nov 2011 17:10:16 GMT
On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net> wrote:

> Hi Kay,
>
> I have some concerns that the buildbot broke recently. Also, somehow my
> checkout of ooo-site was busted with a lock. I am currently doing a
> re-checkout.
>

yes...sorry about that! "documentation" was HUGE and caused many problems I
guess. Really I didn't know beforehand that this would happen.  I even did
a clean on it myself to try to resolve issues. Now that I have some better
size guidelines, I think I can do better...although it will be less
efficient.


> On Nov 23, 2011, at 3:12 PM, Kay Schenk wrote:
>
> > OK, I understand. As a point of clarification. I have a complete set vis
> a
> > vis openoffice.svn sites of all "accepted" and "incubator" projects
> which I
> > am now cleaning up and importing into the ooo-site svn tree.
> >
> > So, no matter what we decided ultimately about the ooo-site tree, we we
> > will ahve copies.
>
> Excellent, having all the projects there is excellent. Let's take
> advantage of this.
>
> >
> > Given the large size of some of these areas, I was just concerned about
> the
> > import of some of them *at all* into the ooo-site svn tree.  however, I
> > know they really do need to be someplace where all the project committers
> > (and contributors) can access them in order to be of any use right now.
>
> If you set the group ownership correctly all other committers should be
> able to access your account in people.apache.org. Let's assume I am
> correct for now without double checking.
>

I'll double check this. I thought anyone should be able to access these
areas.


> I was planning to check in every N-L site, tag each and then delete the
> N-L from ooo-site. If your archive is available to all committers then this
> is a better archive location than svn. Fewer steps and less impact to the
> ASF infrastructure.
>
> >
> > So, I will get back to the import process on Friday, and hopefully, can
> get
> > the legacy "accepted" projects in the ooo-site tree for further
> evaluation
> > by SUnday.
>
> Yes and I would avoid doing anymore N-L projects.
>
> Since Khirano is willing to do a translation of the new main site. If
> Pedro and the other Italians and MArcus and the other Germans. Plus
> Alexandro and the Spanish are in Consensus to do translations of the new
> main (Am I missing any other "active" N-L projects?) then I am for removing
> all N-L now.
>
> I am back over the weekend and we can start focusing on the final push.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton <
> > dennis.hamilton@acm.org> wrote:
> >
> >> My recommendation is that everything in terms of web pages should be
> >> preserved that is not already captured in the bugzilla, MediaWiki, and
> >> Community Forums.
> >>
> >> Cleanup can happen on our ooo-site SVN in anticipation of the cut-over
> and
> >> after the cut-over.  The remodeling to divide up the site content and
> also
> >> provide adequate portal operation from openoffice.org to the Apache
> >> OpenOffice development/project site does not have to be completed, or
> even
> >> started very much, prior to cut-over.  It is something to nibble through
> >> when there is no time-limit over our heads and the keys to the live
> content
> >> are in our custody.
> >>
> >> - Dennis
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.schenk@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 08:56
> >> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: Rationalizing two OpenOffice websites
> >>
> >> +1...all good, and something we had discussed early on.
> >>
> >> However, as I work on porting legacy info over, I am wondering what to
> do
> >> about the more "developer" centered areas of the site: api, sc, sw,
> >> framework, external (? -- I need to look at this one), tools,porting,
> and
> >> many others that are not really "user centered". I will load these into
> the
> >> ooo-site tree, but at some point, someone on the "developer" side should
> >> really cull this out and move them to the "developer" side so we don't
> >> continually deal with these areas on the "user portal".
> >>
> >> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:46 PM, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> We have with this project something that most other Apache projects
> >>> don't have and which the legacy OOo project never had.  We have two
> >>> independent websites.
> >>>
> >>> We have the legacy www.openoffice.org website, which served as an
> >>> end-user portal for OpenOffice as well as a website for project
> >>> participants.
> >>>
> >>> And we have the http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/, which on
> >>> graduation probably becomes something shorter,  like
> >>> http://openoffice.apache.org.  For most Apache projects their website
> >>> also serves both purposes:  a site for users as well as project
> >>> participants.
> >>>
> >>> So, we have both of these websites, and a lot of redundancy caused by
> >>> it.  This obviously has a downside.  It makes it hard to update, since
> >>> a lot of information is in both places.  And it confuses users since
> >>> the websites are out of sync on some important topics.  It also
> >>> prevents us from really optimizing the experience for each audience.
> >>> I suspect that long-term this dual-website with overlapping content is
> >>> not a maintainable model.
> >>>
> >>> What can we do?
> >>>
> >>> I hope I am not committing heresy if I say that most users of
> >>> OpenOffice care as little about Apache as drinker of a Pepsi cares
> >>> about the Board of Directors of PepsiCo Corporation.  The average user
> >>> (and we're talking about millions of them) cares about downloading,
> >>> installing, using, learning about and generally being productive with
> >>> OpenOffice.  It is a tool they use to do their work. Their work is
> >>> what matters to them, not our work.
> >>>
> >>> But of course we also have a growing number of users, contributors and
> >>> committers who want to get more involved with the project. OpenOffice
> >>> is interesting to them.  They identify with it.  They want to learn
> >>> more than just the basics.  They are intrigued by open source.  They
> >>> want to help.  They want to get more involved.
> >>>
> >>> The trick I think, is to have websites that speak to each of these
> >>> audiences, as well as an easy/obvious way to navigate between them,
> >>> while at the same time avoiding unnecessary cross talk and redundancy.
> >>>
> >>> For example, could we have something like this:
> >>>
> >>> 1) www.openoffice.org is the website for the OpenOffice product.  It
> >>> is the end user site, focused on their interactions with the product.
> >>> So download, help, extensions, support.  It is not how they interact
> >>> with the project.  It serves the narrow focus on the product.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 2) incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg (eventually
> >>> openoffice.apache.org) on the other hand is where the project members
> >>> work and where the public (includiing users) interacts with the
> >>> project. Not the product, but the project.
> >>>
> >>> This dual website is quite commonly used for managing large and
> >>> important brands.  For example, the consumer, when interfacting with
> >>> the brand Pepsi and Pepsi products goes to:
> >>>
> >>> http://www.pepsi.com
> >>>
> >>> But the person who wants to learn more about the company goes to
> another
> >>> URL:
> >>>
> >>> http://www.pepsico.com/
> >>>
> >>> Navigating between then is possible via a link on the page footer.
> >>> But generally each site is optimized for its target audience.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> MzK
> >>
> >> "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged
> >> by the way its animals are treated."
> >>                             -- Mohandas Gandhi
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > MzK
> >
> > "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged
> > by the way its animals are treated."
> >                              -- Mohandas Gandhi
>
>


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged
 by the way its animals are treated."
                              -- Mohandas Gandhi

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