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From Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net>
Subject Web Strategy using the Apache CMS [Was: Re: request]
Date Thu, 03 Nov 2011 16:36:19 GMT
Hi Rob,

In addition to thinking through the strategy for openoffice.org we should be thinking about
the podling site's main page and how we really want to organize and personalize that for developers.
For example, BZ and SVN feeds. Wiki changes. Build tips ...

The left nav is getting heavy and has always been very ad hoc. Just some thoughts.

More in line in response, but think both sites as you read.

On Nov 3, 2011, at 8:51 AM, Rob Weir wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> On Nov 3, 2011, at 4:28 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>> 
>>> On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:59 AM, Ariel Constenla-Haile
>>> <ariel.constenla.haile@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, Nov 03, 2011 at 09:16:43AM +0100, J├╝rgen Schmidt wrote:
>>>>>>> There was a large effort to handle the redirector to the different
NL. NL
>>>>>>> are not translations of the homepage are different communities
in itself.
>>>>>>> Something that was governance with the NLC and other structures.
>>>> 
>>>> N-L Projects had Project Leads
>>>> http://projects.openoffice.org/native-lang.html
>>>> 
>>>> You can read some rules in http://native-lang.openoffice.org/
>>>> 
>>>> Basically, N-L Projects were managed by Project Leads.
>>>> IMO fortunately in The Apache Way there is no place for Project Leads
>>>> anymore.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> We are a single project.  But someone can still volunteer to "take the
>>> lead" on something.  So Dave Fisher took the lead in getting the OOo
>>> website moved over to Apache.  We all acknowledge his enthusiasm and
>>> skill in this area, the generosity of his time. No one appointed him
>>> "Webmaster" or "Lead" for that effort.  But he is the de facto lead
>>> for that effort because he demonstrated leadership and volunteered to
>>> lead that effort.  But next week it could be someone else doing the
>>> same task.  It is very fluid.
>> 
>> Thanks for this. I've documented the process both in the svn archive and on the website.
I am very willing to share. Changes are welcome.
>> 
>> For the website I'll give others credit for starting to move the NL projects:
>> 
>> - Raphael Bircher did the DE port from kenai and provided the svn address for Kenai.
>> - Marcus worked in the DE site and with Downloads.
>> - Kay is the one who did most of the initial migrations of the NL sites. There was
trouble and I am filling from behind.
>> - Alexandro has made a couple of tweaks to the ES site.
>> 
>> I hope I haven't forgotten anyone.
>> 
>>> 
>>> I think OOo was more vertical and hierarchical in how the project was
>>> structured, with formal roles and leads that defined domains of
>>> exclusive control.  There is nothing wrong with that.  Most
>>> corporations are like that.  Apache projects are more horizontal.
>>> There are no predefined roles.  But we naturally have different
>>> interests and skills and our efforts naturally sort themselves
>>> according to those preferences.  And these interests might change over
>>> time.  But there are no formal appointed leads.  It is more about
>>> coordination than control.
>> 
>> Whether or not we continue NL sites when the switchover occurs is a decision for
the project.
>> 
>> Whether or not translations occur in each NL site or as translations of key pages
in www & the rest depends on whether or not there are individuals who are committed to
doing and maintaining the translations - or the NL sites.
>> 
>> The experience of migrating the NL sites is leading me towards the translation approach.
>> 
> 
> We could also take a mixed approach:
> 
> 1) NL versions of the main public welcome site (xx.openoffice.org) are
> translations of the main www.openoffice.org page.  We try to maintain
> this in a coordinated fashion.  So a common look & feel, common
> branding placement, common content, a way for the PPMC to push out
> timely notices across the NL sites, etc.
> 
> 2) But each NL site has a panel for NL-specific notices and updates.
> This could include links to pages with additional specific content
> targeted to that NL.  For example, the Arabic and Hebrew sites might
> have a special page on how bidirectional text is supported in
> OpenOffice.  The Japanese website could have specific FAQs on things
> like support of IME's, etc.  Local AOOo-related events could also be
> there.

Take a look at www.apache.org. The page is published every hour and it updates several different
feeds.

It would be possible to show a NL project specific feed to that translation, also language
specific links.

These would be mixed and there might not be an "en" version. The user would get the appropriate
page according to their "ACCEPT-LANG"

> With an approach like that we get the best of both worlds:  a
> consistent message for our users, as well as flexibility for relevant
> NL-specific content.

I will continue the migration of the NL sites. A goal will be to examine and categorize the
existing NL main pages to note all features.

See ja.openoffice.org and es.openoffice.org for different types of feed and personalization
ideas.

See ooo-site.apache.org/pt-br for a site that is just a link to broffice.org.

> 
> If we wanted to get really fancy, we could notice that language is but
> one dimension by which we could personalize the site's user
> experience.  Someone, when they first visit, might say that they are a
> student, or an engineer, or a home user, or a corporate user, etc.,
> and we could feature content recommended for them based on their
> profile, e.g., new templates, plugins, FAQ's, etc.  This could be done
> manually, e.g., someone tags a message as appropriate for "all
> english-speaking students" and it shows up when they visit.  Or it
> could be automated via the various collaborative filtering algorithms.
> E-commerce sites like Amazon.com use this all over.  But the
> techniques are equally applicable to us and our users.

We would need some type of javascript / cookie / url selector ala download.cgi and the download
buttons.

The Apache CMS does provide for a cgi-bin directory.

> 
> Someday.  First we stand, then walk, then run.  We're starting to
> stand up now.  But I think having a high level vision for website
> personalization would help guide us toward future possibilities.  And
> a template-like approach of fixed content which is translated, and
> then zones (panels, <div>'s, whatever) of content that can be inserted
> on a targeted basis, would give us a lot of flexibility.

I'll be at Apachecon ...

Regards,
Dave

> 
>> OTH - Communities have built sites and they have an interest in the results.
>> 
>> If we decide to change to a translation approach it will still be good to have the
existing OOo in a tag in the ooo-site tree. That way it can be recovered.
>> 
>>> 
>>> That's my view of how it works.  Others may be a different view of
>>> this.  That is expected.  No one has exclusive control over saying
>>> what the Apache Way means.
>> 
>> My purpose is to enable the community. If I overstep then pull my leash (gently please)
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Rob
>>> 
>>>>>>> NL like
>>>>>>> ES, FR and JA are structurally different to the EN homepage.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> There was a whole body of work so that it was easy for people
to locate
>>>>>>> their NLC. Might be a good idea to see how much this change from
the
>>>>>>> ooo-site and the openofficeorg tree.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I've found that each NL site has very much their own main page.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ES is especially different.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I don't have a favorite, each has a certain charm and style.
>>>> 
>>>> [...]
>>>> 
>>>>>> The concern I have about other language versions within the podling
>>>>>> site that they will diverge. Someone will change the en version and
>>>>>> won't be able to change the zh, ja, or de versions. The maintainer
of
>>>>>> a version may move on.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The existing NL sites are proof of this divergence. The DE site is
>>>>>> very large and also quite out of date. I think that community moved
>>>>>> onto the wiki some time ago.
>>>>> 
>>>>> or the maintainer moved to LibreOffice. Anyway as i mentioned before
>>>>> i would prefer to have translated pages with the same content only.
>>>>> It makes things much easier.
>>>> 
>>>> +1
>>>> as you said before, NL project will be better o the wiki, and let the
>>>> $LANG.openoffice.org be just a translation of www.openoffice.org, with
>>>> the same look and feel as the main site.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards
>>>> --
>>>> Ariel Constenla-Haile
>>>> La Plata, Argentina
>>>> 
>> 
>> 


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