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From eric b <>
Subject Re: [OT] Re: [WWW][Policy] Participate! - Rewriting
Date Mon, 21 Nov 2011 06:35:47 GMT

Le 20 nov. 11 à 17:38, Shane Curcuru a écrit :

> On 2011-11-20 3:19 AM, eric b wrote:
>> Hi,
>> Le 20 nov. 11 à 01:30, Kay Schenk a écrit :
>>> OK, I truly hate to make a comment like this, but...
>>> eric b, any chance you could take your issues with Louis  
>>> somewhere other
>>> than this list?
> Kay has a point, and in a more established Apache project this kind  
> of discussion would *not* be appreciated.

I perfectly understand.

>   However I understand that there's a lot of history in the  
> previous project, especially with a lot of strong- 
> willed individuals, so I'll contribute to this thread.

And you will see that Oracle was not the bad boy. And you'll discover  
that a little number of people, always the same, mostly producing  
nothing, had some responsabilties in the disaster too.

The same one are on top of the TDF now, and some are there, inside  

>> Everything I reported are facts, that you can verify in the archives.
>> I'm simply describing a system who caused a disaster in  
>> Louis was just one ot "the band".
>> If what people reported me is true, this "Monarchy" is still alive  
>> (I've
>> heard of "discussions with old Community Council") , and probably,  
>> there
>> is one plan behind the wood.
> Do you have specific references to such behavior happening within  
> an Apache project?
> If you do not, well, then I can only say with my 9 years of  
> experience being an Apache Member that Monarchies are *not*  
> tolerated at Apache, and if the relevant (P)PMC can't ensure that  
> the community acts in an open and meritocratic way, that either the  
> Incubator PMC or the board will step in to ensure that it does (or,  
> will terminate the podling/project).

So why do you protect people like you do with Hagar Delest ?

Refuse other people to know all the people working with them is  
exactly the beginning of such Monarchy :  people are not equal in  
your system.

Remember : I only ask that PPMC know the real name of everybody in  
the PPMC, nothing else. How can we trust people if we don't know who  
they are ?

> I can also say with my AOO Mentor hat that from my perspective, the  
> Community Council of the previous project is gone,  
> ceased, no longer exists as an officially recognized organization.   
> A lot of past organizational structures that were related to the  
> Sun or Oracle led project in the past are gone; it's just that  
> Oracle never bothered to officially announce the end of them (as  
> best I can see). It's obvious that a number of people who used to  
> have titles or roles in those organizations are hoping to get them  
> back or otherwise continue to use them, but they have no meaning  
> within the governance of this Apache podling.
> I also think it's pretty clear from the discussions here by the  
> most active PPMC members (in terms of actual commits, not mailing  
> list traffic) that this PPMC explicitly does not want to re-form  
> any of the structures from the previous project.

I have perfectly understood, but you'll probably have to distrubute  
some roles too. This is urgent.

>> As volunteer, not being paid, and working a lot on the code in my  
>> spare time, I'd like to concentrate me on something ethical and  
>> true, to avoid this occur again, and see the MERIT and TRUE  
>> CONTRIBUTIONS (not only code) being the motor, but not politics,  
>> nor mind manipulators.
>> If I have some doubts, or if ever the old crappy system is back, I  
>> promise to immediately stop to contribute to Apache  
>>, without regret.
> Yes, you've said this before (in terms of leaving the project if  
> you couldn't know Hagar's true identity), which I have to say from  
> my perspective doesn't help your argument any (at least not in the  
> typical Apache Way mindset).

And I can explain easely : I was really unsubscribed a long time,  
ignoring everything about Apache OOo (that's why I ignore a lot of  
things discussed in meantime).

Recently, one reported me issues, and I - generously - proposed to  
fix them in apache too. I did that because I simply  
wanted to help, and share my knowledge (I'm not paid for anything I  
do in free software world). My purpose was to help Apache, because what is happening (e.g. in France) is not  
honest too (Communication war, and bad lobbying).

In return, I got your sarcasms.

Eric Bachard

Projet OOo4Kids :
L'association EducOOo :
Blog :

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