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From Shane Curcuru <>
Subject Re: [OT] Re: [WWW][Policy] Participate! - Rewriting
Date Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:38:15 GMT
On 2011-11-20 3:19 AM, eric b wrote:
> Hi,
> Le 20 nov. 11 à 01:30, Kay Schenk a écrit :
>> OK, I truly hate to make a comment like this, but...
>> eric b, any chance you could take your issues with Louis somewhere other
>> than this list?

Kay has a point, and in a more established Apache project this kind of 
discussion would *not* be appreciated.  However I understand that 
there's a lot of history in the previous project, 
especially with a lot of strong-willed individuals, so I'll contribute 
to this thread.

> Everything I reported are facts, that you can verify in the archives.
> I'm simply describing a system who caused a disaster in
> Louis was just one ot "the band".
> If what people reported me is true, this "Monarchy" is still alive (I've
> heard of "discussions with old Community Council") , and probably, there
> is one plan behind the wood.

Do you have specific references to such behavior happening within an 
Apache project?

If you do not, well, then I can only say with my 9 years of experience 
being an Apache Member that Monarchies are *not* tolerated at Apache, 
and if the relevant (P)PMC can't ensure that the community acts in an 
open and meritocratic way, that either the Incubator PMC or the board 
will step in to ensure that it does (or, will terminate the 

I can also say with my AOO Mentor hat that from my perspective, the 
Community Council of the previous project is gone, 
ceased, no longer exists as an officially recognized organization.  A 
lot of past organizational structures that were related to the Sun or 
Oracle led project in the past are gone; it's just that Oracle never 
bothered to officially announce the end of them (as best I can see). 
It's obvious that a number of people who used to have titles or roles in 
those organizations are hoping to get them back or otherwise continue to 
use them, but they have no meaning within the governance of this Apache 

I also think it's pretty clear from the discussions here by the most 
active PPMC members (in terms of actual commits, not mailing list 
traffic) that this PPMC explicitly does not want to re-form any of the 
structures from the previous project.

> As volunteer, not being paid, and working a lot on the code in my spare
> time, I'd like to concentrate me on something ethical and true, to avoid
> this occur again, and see the MERIT and TRUE CONTRIBUTIONS (not only
> code) being the motor, but not politics, nor mind manipulators.
> If I have some doubts, or if ever the old crappy system is back, I
> promise to immediately stop to contribute to Apache,
> without regret.

Yes, you've said this before (in terms of leaving the project if you 
couldn't know Hagar's true identity), which I have to say from my 
perspective doesn't help your argument any (at least not in the typical 
Apache Way mindset).

- Shane
>> This is, I believe, the second personal rant I've seen like this, and
>> I, for one, don't really feel it's appropriate for the venue.
> Well, if you read carefully :
> ... you'll read that I "alienated developers" : [15:27:41] louis_to and
> the fact that the lead seems to alienate a lot of develoopers,
> arccording to reports
> Please be curious : notice the name of the people present, and think
> what's happening with them today.
> My reaction is not a rant, but rather some "please, Apache people, open
> your eyes".
> Regards,
> Eric

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