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From Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Mailing list user migration: Staging and volunteers
Date Wed, 26 Oct 2011 00:50:50 GMT
On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 6:43 PM, Andrew Rist <andrew.rist@oracle.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 10/25/2011 2:43 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Kay Schenk<kay.schenk@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Rob Weir<robweir@apache.org>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> A quick summary of where we are, in case you haven't been following
>>>> the previous threads.
>>>>
>>>> Information on the top 100 legacy mailing lists is on the wiki [1].
>>>> A draft note that will be sent to these lists is an another page [2].
>>>>
>>>> If you note in that first page, the "Migration Owner" column is blank.
>>>>  So either I need to quickly learn French, Dutch and Japanese, or I
>>>> need some help here.
>>>>
>>>> Volunteers would translate the note, send it to the relevant NL lists,
>>>> and be available on those lists to answer any migration-related
>>>> questions.  Ideally you would already be a participant on the lists
>>>> and familiar to that community.
>>>>
>>>> As for staging, I'd recommend that we do not do this all at once.
>>>> Migrating 100 lists at once would be very messy.  But we can easily
>>>> break this down into related groups of lists and do the migration over
>>>> a few weeks.  One possible staging would be:
>>>>
>>>> 1) All the lists that will be merged into the new ooo-marketing list.
>>>> This will help jump start that lists important work, and bring
>>>> community members into the discussion who might not have been
>>>> interested in the other topics we've been discussing on ooo-dev.
>>>>
>>>> 2) All of the lists that will be merged into ooo-dev
>>>>
>>>> 3) All of the lists that will be merged into ooo-users
>>>>
>>>> 4) NL lists (which could be done in parallel with the above.  However,
>>>> they will require some discussion and admin work to create new
>>>> ooo-lang lists,)
>>>>
>>>> The thought behind this staging is that we "work out the kinks" with
>>>> the more technical and (hopefully) more forgiving project lists,
>>>> before moving on to the user and NL lists.  We can adjust the
>>>> instructions and messaging based on what we learn from the initial
>>>> migrations.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> -Rob
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Have the "new" NL lists been setup already? I may have missed that and I
>>> haven't look at any jira tix.
>>>
>> No NL lists yet, except for Japanese.  We need moderator volunteers
>> before we can request them.
>>
>> Process for getting a new mailing list created is here:
>>
>> http://www.apache.org/dev/committers.html#new-mailing-list
>>
>> Probably makes sense to start with the largest NL communities first?
>
> Have we considered having a list for 'un-represented languages'?
> If a user does not find their language, where do they go?  Posting to the
> English list or ooo-dev in another language is frowned on.
> This is a bootstrapping question.
> Where can a community go to say that they exist, have a need, and would like
> to create a list.
>

There are some words of wisdom in the Committer's FAQ [1] regarding user lists:

"WARNING: the creation of a user mail list can be a very dangerous
thing for a community if the developers don't pay attention to their
users and if users don't have developers that reply to their emails.
Sure, active developers should expect a well behaving user community
to reply to one another for simple questions, but this doesn't happen
overnight and the creation of a user mail list alone can turn into a
very harmful change."

So I think we would want to consider on each request whether we have
sufficient interest to have a self-supporting user support community.
Having an existing committer who speaks the language is great.  Having
a number of power users is also good.  But having users asking
questions and getting no answers --- that would reflect poorly on the
project.

That said, I have absolutely no idea how would determine this for a
new list.  For existing lists I think we can look at the archives and
see how much traffic they are getting, whether questions are being
answered, etc.  But if someone requests a Klingon list, how do we know
if there is a sufficient community behind it?

As for where to ask, I think that is ooo-dev by default, and the
request would need to be made in English or some other language that
we can figure out how to translate.

[1]: http://www.apache.org/dev/committers.html#new-mailing-list


I think that would be ooo-dev, in a language that

ooo-dev is essentially the central list for the project, in terms of
announcements, posting project-wide proposals, etc.

> I understand we don't want to create dead lists, and don't want to create a
> list that cannot be self sustainable,
> but it seems like there is a gap here for bringing in new communities.
>>
>>>> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Mailing+lists
>>>> [2]
>>>>
>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Email+Migration+Post
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> MzK
>>>
>>> "This is no social crisis
>>>  Just another tricky day for you."
>>>                 -- "Tricky Day", the Who
>>>
>
> --
>
> Andrew Rist | Interoperability Architect
> OracleCorporate Architecture Group
> Redwood Shores, CA | 650.506.9847
>
>

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