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From Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [Proposal] Shutting down legacy OOo mailing lists
Date Mon, 17 Oct 2011 16:20:37 GMT
On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> On Oct 17, 2011, at 8:45 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> I like your proposal. I have some comments inline.
>>>
>>> On Oct 16, 2011, at 3:12 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm making a proposal now to shut down the legacy OOo mailing lists
>>>> and direct the existing subscribers to one of the AOOo mailing lists.
>>>> I realize that this is not the solution that many of us would prefer,
>>>> but I believe that it is the best way forward that anyone is willing
>>>> to volunteer to lead.  Please delight me by proving me wrong on this,
>>>> by objecting this this proposal *and volunteering to do an alternative
>>>> migration*.   But this approach is more graceful than the default, if
>>>> we do nothing, of just having the lists just go down one day and not
>>>> recover.
>>>>
>>>> Proposal:
>>>>
>>>> If not one objects and offers to lead a different transition plan, in
>>>> one week I will do the following:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Make a list of all public legacy OOo mailing lists that have
>>>> received at least 5 non-spam email in 2011.
>>>>
>>>> 2) Publish that list on the wiki, along with :
>>>>
>>>> a) the language predominately spoken on the list, if not English
>>>>
>>>> b) the recommended AOOo list that existing subscribers should be pointed
to.
>>>
>>> c) the list's OOo/Kenai project.
>>>
>>
>> No objections to having that info on the wiki, but I don't see where
>> that info helps with the migration.
>>
>>> At the end of the week the ML list should be incorporated in the OOo properties
that Dennis and I are "noodling" over. (Language is another property.)
>>>
>>>> 3) I will then draft, in English,  a post to be send to the above
>>>> lists.  The post will talk about the overall effort of the migration
>>>> to Apache, the specific migration of the mailing lists, and invite the
>>>> subscribers to stay informed and to participate in the new Apache
>>>> lists.  Information on how to subscribe will be provided.  A shutdown
>>>> date, for the legacy lists will be included, two weeks from the
>>>> posting date.
>>>
>>> It would be good to co-ordinate this message with a general timeline for the
OOo migration. We should be clear about what is NOT being migrated and what is possible if
the community disagrees..
>>>
>>
>> Great.  If we have a good statement on overall migration, we can
>> include that.  Or if it is still "work in progress" I can link to a
>> wiki page where the latest info can be found.  But there is no
>> technical requirement for us to figure everything out before we move
>> forward on independent pieces that we do understand.  We've done that
>> already in other areas, like source code, issue tracking, and soon the
>> forums.   And in general, it is to our benefit to move ahead with the
>> pieces we do understand, especially communications vehicles, so we're
>> not caught in a bad situation if the legacy servers unexpectedly
>> became unavailable.  It is prudent to ensure that we have the main
>> means of communication solidly on Apache servers sooner rather than
>> later.
>
> It will certainly be a work in progress, the more the ML changes are put in the context
of the total migration the better.
>
>>
>>>>
>>>> 4) I will invite volunteers to translate the draft post into other languages.
>>>>
>>>> 5) I, and whatever volunteers wish to help, will send the posts to the lists.
>>>>
>>>> 6) The note will be repeated a week later.
>>>>
>>>> 7) After two weeks we request via Oracle that the Kenai admins close
>>>> the lists, per:
>>>>
>>>> http://kenai.com/projects/help/pages/ManageProject#MailingLists
>>>
>>> In the three to four weeks that it will take to get to step (7) AOOo and Apache
Infra should have control over the openoffice.org MX records. An easier alternative would
be to decide what MX services we want to continue on openoffice.org and do the MX migration
at this point. Even if it will bounce and/or forward email.
>>>
>>
>> I'd be opposed to any automatic forwarding of list traffic or
>> indiscriminate transferring of subscriptions from the legacy lists.
>> Several of the legacy lists are are over-run by spammers.   An earlier
>> poster said they get 80-120 moderation requests per day.  We have a
>> good opportunity to "clean house" and to leave the spammers behind.
>
> Let's not forget that there are a number of people who make use of their @openoffice.org
email address. We owe it to these people to give them some time to react if these are being
dropped. There are also implications with BZ - at least in bug ownership and accounts. We've
"bikeshedded" on these addresses, we now need a plan. If someone cares enough about openoffice.org
personal email addresses we'll need volunteers to work out the details.
>

Nothing I've proposed will impact the @openoffice.org mail forwarding
service.   That is an independent issue that we need to develop a plan
for and communicate. But it is reasonable that when we announce
mailing list changes that we'll also get questions related to the
forwarding service.

It makes me think that we would benefit from a single user-facing page
on the current status of the migration.  What has moved, what hasn't,
what the general plan is.  Something with a lot less technical detail
than we have on the wiki right now.  A high level summary that we can
point users to.

-Rob

> Regards,
> Dave
>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Rob
>>>
>>>
>
>

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