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From Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org>
Subject Re: How voting works...
Date Wed, 19 Oct 2011 12:00:13 GMT
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 6:50 PM, Ross Gardler
<rgardler@opendirective.com> wrote:
> I'm not going to dig into all the details of how a vote is called in the ASF.
>
> In posting this I am not asking for the current vote to be recalled,
> there is no need.
>
> I am just wanting to flag something that concerns me about how the
> vote was called (and as per usual this is just advice from a mentor,
> these are not rules that must be adopted).
>
> In an ASF community everyone is entitled to an opinion. Everyone
> should be encouraged to express that opinion in a formal vote, just as
> much as they should be encouraged to express their opinions in day to
> day discussion.
>

We're very concerned, as we should be, to ensure that everyone, even
non-PPMC members, can weigh in on all project discussions and
decisions, including policy and governance questions.  As we should.
I applaud that commitment to openness.

However, the proposal that we're voting on has this clause regarding
the support forums:

 "Forum governance will be discussed in a publicly readable forum.
Write access will be limited to those with at least 10 posts."

In other words,  we're agreeing to a proposal where it is not true
that "In an ASF community everyone is entitled to an opinion. Everyone
should be encouraged to express that opinion in a formal vote, just as
 much as they should be encouraged to express their opinions in day to
day discussion."

When I brought that up in the discussion thread I was shut down by a
mentor for introducing an "overly legalistic parsing" of the proposal.
 I take that to mean I was thinking too much.   I'll stop now, because
honestly the incongruity if our words and actions is shameful and
painful to observe.

-Rob

> It is true that only some members of the community have binding votes.
> However, this only becomes important in the event of an absence of
> community consensus.
>
> Therefore, when calling a vote please do not word it in such a way
> that implies others in the community do not have a vote that counts.
> It does count. A responsible PPMC member will use their own vote to
> support any appropriate objections from the community. They can only
> do that if the community is encouraged to express their views
> alongside everyone else..
>
> Specifically, there is no need to define binding votes in the vote
> thread, the way Apache Projects vote is well documented and, over
> time, the AOOo project will gain its own guidelines. Secondly, do not
> list the people who are "important" enough to have a binding vote.
> Thirdly, explicitly call for all community members to express their
> preferences in the vote.
>
> In other words, make every action of the PPMC as inclusive as possible.
>
> Finally, Denis - thank you for calling the vote.
>
> Ross
>
> --
> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>

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