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From Rob Weir <>
Subject Re: [SPAM] Re: [Proposal] Shutting down legacy OOo mailing lists
Date Wed, 19 Oct 2011 21:07:32 GMT
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 4:33 PM, John Boyle <> wrote:
> On 10/19/2011 12:21 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
>> <>  wrote:
>>> Concerning subscriptions to many lists in order to make announcements,
>>> etc., I think if you have an ID, it will go rather smoothly.
>>>  You can then use the web pages that provide subscribe buttons for blocks of
>>> lists and work rather quickly.  The archive view (useful in knowing how
>>> [in]active a list is) also has a form for sending a message to the
>>> just-subscribed list.
>>> There may be some of these lists where the project is considered private
>>> and subscription is moderated.  I know there are lists, such as
>>> announcement@ OO.o where the posts are also moderated.
>> FWIW, I'm only looking at "community" discussion lists.  I'm not
>> touching any uni-directional "utility" lists, like ones that echo bug
>> reports, commit notifications, etc.
>>> Here are the www mailing
>>> lists:<>.  You must be logged
in to
>>> see the Subscribe buttons and other information.  To make a post, go to the
>>> archive, open any message, and then select Reply to List in the little
>>> pull-down on the form.
>>> The Projects mailing lists are on the Projects A-Z tab
>>> of<>.  Each project has its own page for
>>> managing all of its subscriptions, subscribing, etc.  (Again, I think you
>>> must be logged in to to see everything that is on these
>>> pages.)
>>>  - Dennis
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Rob Weir []
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 05:57
>>> To:
>>> Subject: Re: [Proposal] Shutting down legacy OOo mailing lists
>>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Kay Schenk<>  wrote:
>>>> On 10/17/2011 09:20 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Dave Fisher<>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On Oct 17, 2011, at 8:45 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Dave
>>>>>>> Fisher<>    wrote:
>>>>>>>> I like your proposal. I have some comments inline.
>>>>>>>> On Oct 16, 2011, at 3:12 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I'm making a proposal now to shut down the legacy OOo
>>>>>>>>> lists and direct the existing subscribers to one of the
>>>>>>>>> mailing lists. I realize that this is not the solution
>>>>>>>>> many of us would prefer, but I believe that it is the
>>>>>>>>> way forward that anyone is willing to volunteer to lead.
>>>>>>>>> Please delight me by proving me wrong on this, by objecting
>>>>>>>>> this this proposal *and volunteering to do an alternative
>>>>>>>>> migration*.   But this approach is more graceful than
>>>>>>>>> default, if we do nothing, of just having the lists just
>>>>>>>>> down one day and not recover.
>>>>>>>>> Proposal:
>>>>>>>>> If not one objects and offers to lead a different transition
>>>>>>>>> plan, in one week I will do the following:
>>>>>>>>> 1) Make a list of all public legacy OOo mailing lists
>>>>>>>>> have received at least 5 non-spam email in 2011.
>>>>>>>>> 2) Publish that list on the wiki, along with :
>>>>>>>>> a) the language predominately spoken on the list, if
>>>>>>>>> English
>>>>>>>>> b) the recommended AOOo list that existing subscribers
>>>>>>>>> be pointed to.
>>>>>>>> c) the list's OOo/Kenai project.
>>>>>>> No objections to having that info on the wiki, but I don't see
>>>>>>> where that info helps with the migration.
>>>>>>>> At the end of the week the ML list should be incorporated
>>>>>>>> the OOo properties that Dennis and I are "noodling" over.
>>>>>>>> (Language is another property.)
>>>>>>>>> 3) I will then draft, in English,  a post to be send
to the
>>>>>>>>> above lists.
>>>> Some of the lists in question may be moderated. Hopefully you/we won't
>>>> run
>>>> into any issues about that.
>>> Hi Kay,
>>> Could you explain what the issue would be here?  I was assuming I
>>> would join each of the mailing lists, in order to send the
>>> notification post. I'd then be there on the list to also answer any
>>> questions.  Are there lists that I cannot subscribe to without
>>> moderator approval?  Do you know which ones?
>>> -Rob
>>>>  The post will talk about the overall effort of
>>>>>>>>> the migration to Apache, the specific migration of the
>>>>>>>>> mailing lists, and invite the subscribers to stay informed
>>>>>>>>> and to participate in the new Apache lists.  Information
>>>>>>>>> how to subscribe will be provided.  A shutdown date,
for the
>>>>>>>>> legacy lists will be included, two weeks from the posting
>>>>>>>>> date.
>>>>>>>> It would be good to co-ordinate this message with a general
>>>>>>>> timeline for the OOo migration. We should be clear about
>>>>>>>> is NOT being migrated and what is possible if the community
>>>>>>>> disagrees..
>>>> Yes. We definitely need to work on such a statement (wiki page)
>>>>>>> Great.  If we have a good statement on overall migration, we
>>>>>>> include that.  Or if it is still "work in progress" I can link
>>>>>>> a wiki page where the latest info can be found.  But there is
>>>>>>> technical requirement for us to figure everything out before
>>>>>>> move forward on independent pieces that we do understand.  We've
>>>>>>> done that already in other areas, like source code, issue
>>>>>>> tracking, and soon the forums.   And in general, it is to our
>>>>>>> benefit to move ahead with the pieces we do understand,
>>>>>>> especially communications vehicles, so we're not caught in a
>>>>>>> situation if the legacy servers unexpectedly became unavailable.
>>>>>>> It is prudent to ensure that we have the main means of
>>>>>>> communication solidly on Apache servers sooner rather than
>>>>>>> later.
>>>>>> It will certainly be a work in progress, the more the ML changes
>>>>>> are put in the context of the total migration the better.
>>>>>>>>> 4) I will invite volunteers to translate the draft post
>>>>>>>>> other languages.
>>>>>>>>> 5) I, and whatever volunteers wish to help, will send
>>>>>>>>> posts to the lists.
>>>>>>>>> 6) The note will be repeated a week later.
>>>>>>>>> 7) After two weeks we request via Oracle that the Kenai
>>>>>>>>> admins close the lists, per:
>>>> [ this para is from Dave's response. I don't know why it's not staying
>>>> put...sorrry!]
>>>> In the three to four weeks that it will take to get to step (7) AOOo and
>>>> Apache Infra should have control over the MX records. An
>>>> easier alternative would be to decide what MX services we want to
>>>> continue
>>>> on and do the MX migration at this point. Even if it will
>>>> bounce and/or forward email.
>>>>>>> I'd be opposed to any automatic forwarding of list traffic or
>>>>>>> indiscriminate transferring of subscriptions from the legacy
>>>>>>> lists. Several of the legacy lists are are over-run by spammers.
>>>>>>> An earlier poster said they get 80-120 moderation requests per
>>>>>>> day.  We have a good opportunity to "clean house" and to leave
>>>>>>> the spammers behind.
>>>>>> Let's not forget that there are a number of people who make use of
>>>>>> their email address. We owe it to these people to
>>>>>> give them some time to react if these are being dropped. There are
>>>>>> also implications with BZ - at least in bug ownership and accounts.
>>>>>> We've "bikeshedded" on these addresses, we now need a plan. If
>>>>>> someone cares enough about personal email addresses
>>>>>> we'll need volunteers to work out the details.
>>>>> Nothing I've proposed will impact the mail
>>>>> forwarding service.   That is an independent issue that we need to
>>>>> develop a plan for and communicate. But it is reasonable that when we
>>>>> announce mailing list changes that we'll also get questions related
>>>>> to the forwarding service.
>>>>> It makes me think that we would benefit from a single user-facing
>>>>> page on the current status of the migration.  What has moved, what
>>>>> hasn't, what the general plan is.  Something with a lot less
>>>>> technical detail than we have on the wiki right now.  A high level
>>>>> summary that we can point users to.
>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>> Regards, Dave
>>>>>>>>> -Rob
>>>> --
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> MzK
>>>> "There is no such thing as coincidence."
>>>>           -- Leroy Jethro Gibbs, Rule #39
> To Rob Weir, et al: I now have the wiki page bookmarked , but as of yet I
> had no idea where to look to see what the recommended new user lists or
> otherwise will be. I do not have any programming skills, I am basically just
> a user of the product. I just happen to think if you're going to do this
> combining And translating, that a list should be made of the proposed new
> lists.I did not know there were 303 lists associated with OOo! That is a
> surprise to me. I am mostly interested in keeping some kind of users list
> active, so that I can learn more of how to use the product. I got on the
> ooo-dev. list mostly by accident, as I wasn't clear on how to just get on
> the new users list. I have stayed on this list, as this way I learned what
> you are planning to do with the whole program and it has been very
> interesting, although I have had to delete some because it was beyond me and
> what I could do. So, can you give me an idea of what the new lists will be
> called and how soon will we be forced to change?:-)

John, in my original proposal I said I would put the list on the wiki
in a week.  That was three days ago.  If you check back in around four
days I will have more detail.

By the way, did you know we already have a users list for Apache  You can subscribe by sending an email to  You will then receive a
confirmation email.  When you respond to that confirmation email your
subscription will be activated.  Let me know if you have any



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