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From Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Mailing list user migration: Staging and volunteers
Date Thu, 27 Oct 2011 22:56:18 GMT
On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Kay Schenk <kay.schenk@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 3:04 PM, Kay Schenk <kay.schenk@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Kay Schenk <kay.schenk@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> A quick summary of where we are, in case you haven't been following
>>> >> the previous threads.
>>> >>
>>> >> Information on the top 100 legacy mailing lists is on the wiki [1].
>>> >> A draft note that will be sent to these lists is an another page [2].
>>> >>
>>> >> If you note in that first page, the "Migration Owner" column is blank.
>>> >>  So either I need to quickly learn French, Dutch and Japanese, or I
>>> >> need some help here.
>>> >>
>>> >> Volunteers would translate the note, send it to the relevant NL lists,
>>> >> and be available on those lists to answer any migration-related
>>> >> questions.  Ideally you would already be a participant on the lists
>>> >> and familiar to that community.
>>> >>
>>> >> As for staging, I'd recommend that we do not do this all at once.
>>> >> Migrating 100 lists at once would be very messy.  But we can easily
>>> >> break this down into related groups of lists and do the migration over
>>> >> a few weeks.  One possible staging would be:
>>> >>
>>> >> 1) All the lists that will be merged into the new ooo-marketing list.
>>> >> This will help jump start that lists important work, and bring
>>> >> community members into the discussion who might not have been
>>> >> interested in the other topics we've been discussing on ooo-dev.
>>> >>
>>> >> 2) All of the lists that will be merged into ooo-dev
>>> >>
>>> >> 3) All of the lists that will be merged into ooo-users
>>> >>
>>> >> 4) NL lists (which could be done in parallel with the above.  However,
>>> >> they will require some discussion and admin work to create new
>>> >> ooo-lang lists,)
>>> >>
>>> >> The thought behind this staging is that we "work out the kinks" with
>>> >> the more technical and (hopefully) more forgiving project lists,
>>> >> before moving on to the user and NL lists.  We can adjust the
>>> >> instructions and messaging based on what we learn from the initial
>>> >> migrations.
>>> >>
>>> >> Regards,
>>> >>
>>> >> -Rob
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> > Have the "new" NL lists been setup already? I may have missed that and I
>>> > haven't look at any jira tix.
>>> >
>>>
>>> No NL lists yet, except for Japanese.  We need moderator volunteers
>>> before we can request them.
>>>
>>> Process for getting a new mailing list created is here:
>>>
>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/committers.html#new-mailing-list
>>>
>>> Probably makes sense to start with the largest NL communities first?
>>>
>>> >
>>> >> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Mailing+lists
>>> >> [2]
>>> >>
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Email+Migration+Post
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> >
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > MzK
>>> >
>>> > "This is no social crisis
>>> >  Just another tricky day for you."
>>> >                 -- "Tricky Day", the Who
>>> >
>>>
>>
>> OK. In terms of process, it's kind of a Catch-22 with the NL lists I guess.
>> We can't have them without moderators, and it's unlikely we'll get
>> (volunteer) moderators until we have them <sigh>. What to do...
>>

If I had any fluency with another language, I'd do something like this:

1) Do an introductory post to the mailing list.  This would be a
variation on the one on the wiki, talking about the incubation
project, the overall migration and the mailing list migration
specifically.  But don't give any mailing list sign up information
yet.

2) Say that the options are:  A) subscribe to one of the the
English-language lists, or B) if there is sufficient interest, propose
the creation of a new NL list at Apache.

3) See how that discussion goes.  If there is strong interest, and you
can get 2 or 3 volunteers to moderate then you should go ahead and
propose the list on ooo-dev.    I'd use the historic activity on the
legacy  list as an indication of whether this would work.

4) Once the list is created, then follow up with the information on
how to subscribe to the list.

I'm very open to having user lists for NL communities where we have
user interest.  But I'm less certain about dev and other
project-related lists in other languages.  We need to avoid
fragmentation in the core project work.

>> The ones in the first block on:
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Mailing+lists
>>
>> through website.dev should be good for the initial message you've got. And,
>> I'm sure they're all English-speaking.
>>

Right.  I did the marketing related ones, showing them how to
subscribe too oo-marketing.

>> Where are you with any of this? Do you need some of us to do subscriptions
>> and get started? Maybe we could assign blocks from the first part of the
>> page above? I'm happy to help. I don't have a lot of time on a daily basis,
>> but could probably do at least 10 over the next few days. I would be happy
>> to deal with sc.dev thru website.dev.
>>
>> I'll start on subscriptions to these pronto. IT might be a good idea if we
>> decided to do the messaging on the same day though. Thoughts.
>>

I don't think we necessarily need to coordinate the dates of
notifications.  But if you are sending a note to a large list, maybe
give a warning on ooo-dev so we can help out on that list with user
questions or problems with subscribing.

>>
>>
>>
>> I took ownership of the ones I'm working on. I hope to get notifications
> sent tomorrow to most, or by Sunday pm at the latest.
>

Thanks.  I see you signed up for the lists that will go to ooo-dev.
That should go smoothly, since they are more technical and will not
have trouble with signing up for the lists.

-Rob

>
>> --
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> MzK
>>
>> "This is no social crisis
>>  Just another tricky day for you."
>>                  -- "Tricky Day", the Who
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MzK
>
> "This is no social crisis
>  Just another tricky day for you."
>                 -- "Tricky Day", the Who
>

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