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From Rob Weir <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] When Is a PPMC Invitee a PPMC Member?
Date Sat, 15 Oct 2011 18:51:41 GMT
On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 2:40 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton <> wrote:
> I am initiating a lazy consensus with regard to when someone is recognized as
> being a PPMC member.  Recognition as a PPMC member applies both for being
> listed on the Podling Status roster and for eligibility to cast a binding vote
> on any podling ballot.
> The discussion will last until midnight Tuesday, 2011-10-18T24:00Z.
> PROPOSAL: No one is established as a PPMC member unless they have an
> invitation to the PPMC and they are subscribed to ooo-private@
>  No one who has not established themselves at the PPMC
> before a vote commences (on ooo-private or on ooo-dev) is not counted as
> casting a binding PPMC-member vote on that ballot.

I assume the triple negative is unintentional?

No objections to your proposal, but I'm not sure it solves anything.
I'm not sure there is even a problem.  If a a vote is held on
ooo-private, then we really don't need to worry about someone who is
*not subscribed* to the list casting a binding vote.  They would not
even know about the vote in the first place, right?

And if it is a public vote, e.g., on a release, then subscription to
the private list is not really relevant.

So rather than thinking of this as a binding versus non-binding vote
thing, maybe just say that if someone is invited to joint the PPMC,
but they have not subscribed too ooo-private within some period of
time (3 months?) then their invitation is rescinded.  If they decide
to get active again, they can always be renominated.  That approach
would takes care of the voting side of things as well.


> It is easy for any AOOo committer who has an invitation to the PPMC to
> establish themselves.  Simply subscribe to ooo-private@
> using the id@ From: e-mail address that each committer has.  If
> that e-mail address is not used, use the e-mail address that is known for the
> committer from the iCLA registration or that is listed for that id@
> in the MailAlias.txt file.  (Modifying MailAlias.txt will or will not be easy
> depending on individual circumstances.  Requests for assistance work.)
> Why be fussy about this?  First, it is inappropriate for someone to exercise a
> binding vote when they have not been participating on the PPMC by at least
> receiving the ooo-private discussions and being aware of whatever is being
> said there about procedures, discussions leading up to a ballot, etc.  That is
> a very low bar.
> When and how a PPMC Member is established is an important matter.  There are
> edge cases around when votes (and vetoes) are counted as binding.  (Think of
> PPMC Member establishment as an equivalent of voter registration in
> jurisdictions that have such procedures.)
> For example, when a ballot is carried out on the ooo-private@ i.a.o list, the
> distinction is between mentors and PPMC members.  Since it is on a list that
> only PPMC members (and mentors and ASF Members) may subscribe to, it is
> relatively easy to recognize votes by PPMC members.  The odd case of someone
> coming on board in the middle of an ooo-private ballot hasn't occurred.
> Similarly, for ballots carried out on the ooo-dev list, there is the question
> of standing (binding or not) of those who have been invited to be on the PPMC
> but who have not established themselves on the PPMC and of those who establish
> themselves after the balloting has commenced.
> When asked how I record PPMC membership in the private register that I
> maintain for the PPMC, I asserted that anyone who has not established
> themselves on the PPMC is not on the PPMC in the published list of committers.
> This [DISCUSS] is to ensure the consequences of that on matters of importance
> are understood and that there is consensus now, rather than in the midst of
> some contentious deliberation.
>  - Dennis
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton []
> Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 18:22
> To:
> Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Publishing the PPMC Roster
> <orcmid note="Responses to Rob's questions in-line" />
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Weir []
> Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 17:48
> To:
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Publishing the PPMC Roster
> [ ... ]
> 4) How are you determining who is on the PPMC?  Based on vote?  Based
> on subscribing to ooo-private?  Based on an authorization file?
> <orcmid>
>  I am not aware of anything like an authz for PPMC members.
>  I use the fact that they are invited or elected to be on the PPMC and
>  they have actually established themselves on the PPMC by subscribing
>  to ooo-private.  I propose that someone who has been invited to the
>  PPMC, is established as a committer, and has not subscribed to ooo-
>  private to not be established as a PPMC member since they have not
>  arranged to follow PPMC discussions and participate in voting.
> </orcmid>
> [ ... ]

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