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From Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [Proposal] Shutting down legacy OOo mailing lists
Date Wed, 19 Oct 2011 12:57:21 GMT
On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Kay Schenk <kay.schenk@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 10/17/2011 09:20 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Dave Fisher<dave2wave@comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Oct 17, 2011, at 8:45 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Dave
>>>> Fisher<dave2wave@comcast.net>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I like your proposal. I have some comments inline.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 16, 2011, at 3:12 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm making a proposal now to shut down the legacy OOo mailing
>>>>>> lists and direct the existing subscribers to one of the AOOo
>>>>>> mailing lists. I realize that this is not the solution that
>>>>>> many of us would prefer, but I believe that it is the best
>>>>>> way forward that anyone is willing to volunteer to lead.
>>>>>> Please delight me by proving me wrong on this, by objecting
>>>>>> this this proposal *and volunteering to do an alternative
>>>>>> migration*.   But this approach is more graceful than the
>>>>>> default, if we do nothing, of just having the lists just go
>>>>>> down one day and not recover.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Proposal:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If not one objects and offers to lead a different transition
>>>>>> plan, in one week I will do the following:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) Make a list of all public legacy OOo mailing lists that
>>>>>> have received at least 5 non-spam email in 2011.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) Publish that list on the wiki, along with :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a) the language predominately spoken on the list, if not
>>>>>> English
>>>>>>
>>>>>> b) the recommended AOOo list that existing subscribers should
>>>>>> be pointed to.
>>>>>
>>>>> c) the list's OOo/Kenai project.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No objections to having that info on the wiki, but I don't see
>>>> where that info helps with the migration.
>>>>
>>>>> At the end of the week the ML list should be incorporated in
>>>>> the OOo properties that Dennis and I are "noodling" over.
>>>>> (Language is another property.)
>>>>>
>>>>>> 3) I will then draft, in English,  a post to be send to the
>>>>>> above lists.
>
> Some of the lists in question may be moderated. Hopefully you/we won't run
> into any issues about that.
>

Hi Kay,

Could you explain what the issue would be here?  I was assuming I
would join each of the mailing lists, in order to send the
notification post. I'd then be there on the list to also answer any
questions.  Are there lists that I cannot subscribe to without
moderator approval?  Do you know which ones?

-Rob


>  The post will talk about the overall effort of
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the migration to Apache, the specific migration of the
>>>>>> mailing lists, and invite the subscribers to stay informed
>>>>>> and to participate in the new Apache lists.  Information on
>>>>>> how to subscribe will be provided.  A shutdown date, for the
>>>>>> legacy lists will be included, two weeks from the posting
>>>>>> date.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be good to co-ordinate this message with a general
>>>>> timeline for the OOo migration. We should be clear about what
>>>>> is NOT being migrated and what is possible if the community
>>>>> disagrees..
>
> Yes. We definitely need to work on such a statement (wiki page)
>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Great.  If we have a good statement on overall migration, we can
>>>> include that.  Or if it is still "work in progress" I can link to
>>>> a wiki page where the latest info can be found.  But there is no
>>>> technical requirement for us to figure everything out before we
>>>> move forward on independent pieces that we do understand.  We've
>>>> done that already in other areas, like source code, issue
>>>> tracking, and soon the forums.   And in general, it is to our
>>>> benefit to move ahead with the pieces we do understand,
>>>> especially communications vehicles, so we're not caught in a bad
>>>> situation if the legacy servers unexpectedly became unavailable.
>>>> It is prudent to ensure that we have the main means of
>>>> communication solidly on Apache servers sooner rather than
>>>> later.
>>>
>>> It will certainly be a work in progress, the more the ML changes
>>> are put in the context of the total migration the better.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4) I will invite volunteers to translate the draft post into
>>>>>> other languages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 5) I, and whatever volunteers wish to help, will send the
>>>>>> posts to the lists.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 6) The note will be repeated a week later.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 7) After two weeks we request via Oracle that the Kenai
>>>>>> admins close the lists, per:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://kenai.com/projects/help/pages/ManageProject#MailingLists
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
> [ this para is from Dave's response. I don't know why it's not staying
> put...sorrry!]
> In the three to four weeks that it will take to get to step (7) AOOo and
> Apache Infra should have control over the openoffice.org MX records. An
> easier alternative would be to decide what MX services we want to continue
> on openoffice.org and do the MX migration at this point. Even if it will
> bounce and/or forward email.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'd be opposed to any automatic forwarding of list traffic or
>>>> indiscriminate transferring of subscriptions from the legacy
>>>> lists. Several of the legacy lists are are over-run by spammers.
>>>> An earlier poster said they get 80-120 moderation requests per
>>>> day.  We have a good opportunity to "clean house" and to leave
>>>> the spammers behind.
>>>
>>> Let's not forget that there are a number of people who make use of
>>> their @openoffice.org email address. We owe it to these people to
>>> give them some time to react if these are being dropped. There are
>>> also implications with BZ - at least in bug ownership and accounts.
>>> We've "bikeshedded" on these addresses, we now need a plan. If
>>> someone cares enough about openoffice.org personal email addresses
>>> we'll need volunteers to work out the details.
>>>
>>
>> Nothing I've proposed will impact the @openoffice.org mail
>> forwarding service.   That is an independent issue that we need to
>> develop a plan for and communicate. But it is reasonable that when we
>> announce mailing list changes that we'll also get questions related
>> to the forwarding service.
>>
>> It makes me think that we would benefit from a single user-facing
>> page on the current status of the migration.  What has moved, what
>> hasn't, what the general plan is.  Something with a lot less
>> technical detail than we have on the wiki right now.  A high level
>> summary that we can point users to.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>> Regards, Dave
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MzK
>
> "There is no such thing as coincidence."
>           -- Leroy Jethro Gibbs, Rule #39
>

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