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From Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Neutral / shared security list ...
Date Tue, 25 Oct 2011 17:26:23 GMT
On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 1:18 PM, Ian Lynch <ianrlynch@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 25 October 2011 18:01, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 12:46 PM, Florian Effenberger
>> <floeff@documentfoundation.org> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > Rob Weir wrote on 2011-10-25 18:38:
>> >>
>> >> I believe it is a bad pattern to establish for collaboration.  We need
>> >> to recognize that TDf/LO exists as a project, and AOOo exists as a
>> >> project.  Once we acknowledge this then it logically follows that
>> >> collaboration will occur between these two projects.  Do we create a
>> >> new mailing list or website, or wiki or whatever, every time we want
>> >> to collaborate?  Is that what we really want to start doing?  If we
>> >> want to coordinate on maintaining a module, we can't do it at Apache?
>> >> If we want to share translation strings, we can't do it at TDF?  If we
>> >> want to share anything, we need to create and maintain an entirely new
>> >> infrastructure for it?  Sorry, that does not make sense.
>> >
>> > answering questions with other questions does not make sense.
>> >
>> > Again, given the history of this topic, I think neutral grounds make
>> sense.
>> > I made a proposal, and so far I have not heard any compelling reason why
>> > this proposal is wrong.
>> >
>> > And I doubt you will name me one, because there is none.
>>
>> It is like making a baby.
>
>
> Well babies are usually made from love and tenderness (unless it's a
> mistake) and I don't see too much of that in this approach. At least to get
> started why not do it on a neutral list? Florian has made a perfectly
> reasonable case for it. Is that so much to give up just to get something
> going? In terms of baby making I'd say we need some serious marriage
> guidance before even talking about getting in bed together never mind
> wrapping anything in latex.
>
> As a PPMC member I think we should show good will by going along with
> Florian's suggestion and at least get one area of definite cooperation.
> Where it happens is totally irrelevant.
>

Then perhaps pursue one of the 6 or other options I raised for
collaboration, unrelated to security. But I think we do poorly if PPMC
members who are not involved with security use this list proposal as
their playground for collaborative experimentation.  There is a reason
why we created a separate ooo-security list with only a subset of PPMC
members.

>
>
>
>>  If you are covered head to toe in latex, it
>> ain't going to happen.  You're trying to do collaboration in a
>> hermetically sealed box, wearing gloves and pinching your nose so you
>> don't have to smell the other party.  Nothing useful will come from
>> that sterile approach.  Those who want to collaborate need to start
>> getting dirty, working on each other's existing mailing lists (sacre
>> bleu!) and acting more like hackers and less like cold war diplomats
>> arguing over the shape of the negotiating table.  Collaboration is not
>> about neutrality.  It is about collaboration.  The sooner we
>> acknowledge this out the sooner we'll achieve results.
>>
>> Again, I invite you to accept our hospitality graciously, and continue
>> participation in the long-established OOo secrurityteam mailing list,
>> soon to be under Apache control and hosting.  I'd also love it if you
>> thought of some TDF-hosted service, in some other area, where you
>> could return the favor and allow us the honor of accepting your
>> hospitality, and give us the opportunity to demonstrate that we have
>> no problems in principle with collaborating with TDF/LO on web sites
>> that they control.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>> > Out for today, doing things that make sense.
>> >
>> > Florian
>> >
>> > --
>> > Florian Effenberger <floeff@documentfoundation.org>
>> > Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation
>> > Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108
>> > Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff
>> >
>>
>
> --
> Ian
>
> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
>
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