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From Dave Fisher <>
Subject Re: How to handle the native language lists?
Date Thu, 20 Oct 2011 19:22:10 GMT
A strong +1 - this is consistent with my memory of what was discussed three months ago.

On Oct 20, 2011, at 12:04 PM, Rob Weir wrote:

> This question came up a few months ago, when we initially started the
> podling.  The legacy OOo project had many mailing lists which were for
> non-English list traffic. This included user lists as well as project
> lists (marketing and translation mainly).  Many of these lists are
> showing up in my survey of the most-used lists in OOo, the list I'm
> using for migration planning.  We've deferred resolving this question
> so far.  I think we've run out of time.  We can't delay figuring this
> much longer.
> So.... what do we want to do with these lists, and more importantly,
> with the community on these lists?  The native language communities
> are an important part of the vitality of the OOo community, and we
> need to agree on a good way to integrate them into the AOOo community.
> On the other hand, we don't want to fragment the community into very
> many small compartments, were we are ineffective in combining our
> strengths together to solve larger problems and undertake larger
> initiatives.  So we need some sort of balance.   OOo, with its 300+
> mailing lists, probably did not achieve the optimal balance.  Let's
> see if we can do better.
> Proposal:
> 1) Create a single user-language list for each native language where
> there is an active user list today, and where we can identify three
> committed moderators, preferably at least one from the PMC.

We might quibble with the number. For some two might be sufficient.

> If there is currently a discuss list as well as a user list in that
> language, combine then into the user list.
> Currently, that would mean the creation of the following new lists
> (assuming we find moderators), like:
> ooo-users-de (German)
> ooo-users-fr (French)
> ooo-users-it (Italian)
> ooo-users-es (Spanish)
> ooo-users-br-pt (Brazilian Portuguese) (or can we generalize this to
> pt in general?)
> ooo-nl (Dutch)
> ooo-ja (Japanese)

While the forum people aren't ML people they will certainly have a sense for the languages
that they support.

Someone made a comment about Vietnamese being a problem right now.

I'd like to know which Languages might be abandoned. I know that in the website there are
two levels of support described. The range of NL projects with more than a placeholder for
a website would be interesting.

> There may be other language we want to cover as well.    The list
> above is intended to illustrative, not exclusive.  The important thing
> is that when dealing with users, we need to meet them on their terms,
> not ours.  The request for at least three moderators is because a user
> list needs more than just spam protection.  We need moderators
> committed to actively participate on those lists.  A user list that
> has been abandoned is very bad for the image of the project.  Since
> the PPMC cannot easily monitor what is happening on a non-English
> mailing list, we will need to have high confidence that there are
> sufficient volunteers on the list to make it succeed.
> 2) For project-related (as opposed to user-related) lists, align them
> with the closest existing AOOo list.
> For example:
> --> ooo-marketing
> --> ooo-marketing
> --> ooo-dev

Here is what people might debate, but I like the inclusive direction.
> and so on.   We're a single Apache project with a single product.
> Although there may be local marketing efforts, there should be a
> single marketing conversation.  Ditto for other aspects of the
> project.
> The net result will be take 300+ existing OOo mailing lists and map
> them to a much smaller number of AOOo mailing lists, maybe a dozen
> total in the end.  This will require understanding and good will from
> all.  Non-native English speakers and native speakers will need to
> adjust how they interact, and in general be more understanding.
> So that's my proposal.  I have my asbestos underwear on.  Feel free to
> start the flaming,


> -Rob

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