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From Kay Schenk <>
Subject Re: How to handle the native language lists?
Date Sat, 22 Oct 2011 22:22:15 GMT

On 10/21/2011 04:52 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 6:53 PM, Kay Schenk<>  wrote:
>> On 10/20/2011 04:04 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
>>> Am 10/20/2011 09:04 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:
>>>> Proposal:
>>>> 1) Create a single user-language list for each native language where
>>>> there is an active user list today, and where we can identify three
>>>> committed moderators, preferably at least one from the PMC.
>>> Before this I would ask on all language-respective MLs if someone is
>>> still at home and would like to come over to ASF; also because the OOo
>>> MLs will be shutdown in x days. Even when the most requests will be in
>>> English (as we cannot translate the text into all languages) we should
>>> get feedback. So, as more people will respond it will justify a new ML.
>>>> If there is currently a discuss list as well as a user list in that
>>>> language, combine then into the user list.
>>>> Currently, that would mean the creation of the following new lists
>>>> (assuming we find moderators), like:
>>>> ooo-users-de (German)
>>>> ooo-users-fr (French)
>>>> ooo-users-it (Italian)
>>>> ooo-users-es (Spanish)
>>>> ooo-users-br-pt (Brazilian Portuguese) (or can we generalize this to
>>>> pt in general?)
>>> Yes, lets start with a common ML.
>>>> ooo-nl (Dutch)
>>>> ooo-ja (Japanese)
>>> Do you mean a different one as we have already a "ja" one?
>> This looks fine but is there some way we can keep the naming convention the
>> consistent for all -- i.e. ooo-"lang" vs. ooo-users-"lang".
>> I think it would make things easier in the long run.
> So these are user lists.  Will we want language-specific translation
> and localization lists at some point?  That is why I thought it would
> make sense to have "user" in the name.  So then in the future we can
> have, e..g., ooo-translate-de, etc., if needed.
> -Rob

oh -- I see. This makes sense.

I vote for the ooo-users-"lang" construct as a starting point for the 
creation of the NL lists.

>>>> There may be other language we want to cover as well. The list
>>>> above is intended to illustrative, not exclusive. The important thing
>>>> is that when dealing with users, we need to meet them on their terms,
>>>> not ours. The request for at least three moderators is because a user
>>>> list needs more than just spam protection. We need moderators
>>>> committed to actively participate on those lists. A user list that
>>>> has been abandoned is very bad for the image of the project. Since
>>>> the PPMC cannot easily monitor what is happening on a non-English
>>>> mailing list, we will need to have high confidence that there are
>>>> sufficient volunteers on the list to make it succeed.
>>> IMHO we should still wait for a number of users and interested people of
>>> a specific language. Otherwise we have some MLs but no people.
>>> For example, many weeks ago I've seen a request to create a German ML
>>> but after that no more support and therefor the request is dead.
>>> However, until today I don't see sorrow about this.
>>>> 2) For project-related (as opposed to user-related) lists, align them
>>>> with the closest existing AOOo list.
>>>> For example:
>>>> -->  ooo-marketing
>>>> -->  ooo-marketing
>>>> -->  ooo-dev
>>>> and so on. We're a single Apache project with a single product.
>>>> Although there may be local marketing efforts, there should be a
>>>> single marketing conversation. Ditto for other aspects of the
>>>> project.
>>>> The net result will be take 300+ existing OOo mailing lists and map
>>>> them to a much smaller number of AOOo mailing lists, maybe a dozen
>>>> total in the end. This will require understanding and good will from
>>>> all. Non-native English speakers and native speakers will need to
>>>> adjust how they interact, and in general be more understanding.
>>>> So that's my proposal. I have my asbestos underwear on. Feel free to
>>>> start the flaming,
>>> Ahm, you know that asbestos is cancer-causing? I would recomment to
>>> change to Teflon-coated underwear (should be comfortable up to 327 °C
>>> resp. 620 °F). Otherwise cancer is not far away. :-P
>>> SCNR
>>> Marcus
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> MzK
>> "There is no such thing as coincidence."
>>            -- Leroy Jethro Gibbs, Rule #39


"There is no such thing as coincidence."
            -- Leroy Jethro Gibbs, Rule #39

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