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From Kay Schenk <kay.sch...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [Proposal] Shutting down legacy OOo mailing lists
Date Wed, 19 Oct 2011 21:45:10 GMT
see below...

On 10/19/2011 05:57 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Kay Schenk<kay.schenk@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 10/17/2011 09:20 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Dave Fisher<dave2wave@comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 17, 2011, at 8:45 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Dave
>>>>> Fisher<dave2wave@comcast.net>    wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like your proposal. I have some comments inline.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 16, 2011, at 3:12 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm making a proposal now to shut down the legacy OOo mailing
>>>>>>> lists and direct the existing subscribers to one of the AOOo
>>>>>>> mailing lists. I realize that this is not the solution that
>>>>>>> many of us would prefer, but I believe that it is the best
>>>>>>> way forward that anyone is willing to volunteer to lead.
>>>>>>> Please delight me by proving me wrong on this, by objecting
>>>>>>> this this proposal *and volunteering to do an alternative
>>>>>>> migration*.   But this approach is more graceful than the
>>>>>>> default, if we do nothing, of just having the lists just go
>>>>>>> down one day and not recover.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Proposal:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If not one objects and offers to lead a different transition
>>>>>>> plan, in one week I will do the following:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1) Make a list of all public legacy OOo mailing lists that
>>>>>>> have received at least 5 non-spam email in 2011.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2) Publish that list on the wiki, along with :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a) the language predominately spoken on the list, if not
>>>>>>> English
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> b) the recommended AOOo list that existing subscribers should
>>>>>>> be pointed to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> c) the list's OOo/Kenai project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No objections to having that info on the wiki, but I don't see
>>>>> where that info helps with the migration.
>>>>>
>>>>>> At the end of the week the ML list should be incorporated in
>>>>>> the OOo properties that Dennis and I are "noodling" over.
>>>>>> (Language is another property.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3) I will then draft, in English,  a post to be send to the
>>>>>>> above lists.
>>
>> Some of the lists in question may be moderated. Hopefully you/we won't run
>> into any issues about that.
>>
>
> Hi Kay,
>
> Could you explain what the issue would be here?  I was assuming I
> would join each of the mailing lists, in order to send the
> notification post. I'd then be there on the list to also answer any
> questions.  Are there lists that I cannot subscribe to without
> moderator approval?  Do you know which ones?

Rob--
I may have been in error saying this about the user oriented lists. My 
apologies. Marcus had once said the general announcements list was 
moderated, and I somehow assumed maybe some of the others were also.

But according to info on the website:

http://www.openoffice.org/mail_list.html

this doesn't seem to be the case. So subscribing to all lists you want 
to contact should work.

>
> -Rob
>
>
>>   The post will talk about the overall effort of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the migration to Apache, the specific migration of the
>>>>>>> mailing lists, and invite the subscribers to stay informed
>>>>>>> and to participate in the new Apache lists.  Information on
>>>>>>> how to subscribe will be provided.  A shutdown date, for the
>>>>>>> legacy lists will be included, two weeks from the posting
>>>>>>> date.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would be good to co-ordinate this message with a general
>>>>>> timeline for the OOo migration. We should be clear about what
>>>>>> is NOT being migrated and what is possible if the community
>>>>>> disagrees..
>>
>> Yes. We definitely need to work on such a statement (wiki page)
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Great.  If we have a good statement on overall migration, we can
>>>>> include that.  Or if it is still "work in progress" I can link to
>>>>> a wiki page where the latest info can be found.  But there is no
>>>>> technical requirement for us to figure everything out before we
>>>>> move forward on independent pieces that we do understand.  We've
>>>>> done that already in other areas, like source code, issue
>>>>> tracking, and soon the forums.   And in general, it is to our
>>>>> benefit to move ahead with the pieces we do understand,
>>>>> especially communications vehicles, so we're not caught in a bad
>>>>> situation if the legacy servers unexpectedly became unavailable.
>>>>> It is prudent to ensure that we have the main means of
>>>>> communication solidly on Apache servers sooner rather than
>>>>> later.
>>>>
>>>> It will certainly be a work in progress, the more the ML changes
>>>> are put in the context of the total migration the better.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 4) I will invite volunteers to translate the draft post into
>>>>>>> other languages.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 5) I, and whatever volunteers wish to help, will send the
>>>>>>> posts to the lists.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 6) The note will be repeated a week later.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 7) After two weeks we request via Oracle that the Kenai
>>>>>>> admins close the lists, per:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://kenai.com/projects/help/pages/ManageProject#MailingLists
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>> [ this para is from Dave's response. I don't know why it's not staying
>> put...sorrry!]
>> In the three to four weeks that it will take to get to step (7) AOOo and
>> Apache Infra should have control over the openoffice.org MX records. An
>> easier alternative would be to decide what MX services we want to continue
>> on openoffice.org and do the MX migration at this point. Even if it will
>> bounce and/or forward email.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd be opposed to any automatic forwarding of list traffic or
>>>>> indiscriminate transferring of subscriptions from the legacy
>>>>> lists. Several of the legacy lists are are over-run by spammers.
>>>>> An earlier poster said they get 80-120 moderation requests per
>>>>> day.  We have a good opportunity to "clean house" and to leave
>>>>> the spammers behind.
>>>>
>>>> Let's not forget that there are a number of people who make use of
>>>> their @openoffice.org email address. We owe it to these people to
>>>> give them some time to react if these are being dropped. There are
>>>> also implications with BZ - at least in bug ownership and accounts.
>>>> We've "bikeshedded" on these addresses, we now need a plan. If
>>>> someone cares enough about openoffice.org personal email addresses
>>>> we'll need volunteers to work out the details.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nothing I've proposed will impact the @openoffice.org mail
>>> forwarding service.   That is an independent issue that we need to
>>> develop a plan for and communicate. But it is reasonable that when we
>>> announce mailing list changes that we'll also get questions related
>>> to the forwarding service.
>>>
>>> It makes me think that we would benefit from a single user-facing
>>> page on the current status of the migration.  What has moved, what
>>> hasn't, what the general plan is.  Something with a lot less
>>> technical detail than we have on the wiki right now.  A high level
>>> summary that we can point users to.
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>>
>>>> Regards, Dave
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> MzK
>>
>> "There is no such thing as coincidence."
>>            -- Leroy Jethro Gibbs, Rule #39
>>

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK

"There is no such thing as coincidence."
            -- Leroy Jethro Gibbs, Rule #39

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