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From Kay Schenk <kay.sch...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Marketing Team
Date Sat, 15 Oct 2011 21:27:19 GMT


On 10/14/2011 01:32 PM, Dave Fisher wrote:
> The real point to this discussion is that the AOOo podling PPC needs
> a clear Marketing Team.

hmmm...an obvious choice for a lead might be one of the former marketing 
folks like Graham Lauder. Maybe he'll step up.

As for the others...no suggestions, and maybe after some thought, more 
should be added. Later on that topic.


>
> On Oct 14, 2011, at 1:05 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Dave Fisher<dave2wave@comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>> While discussing this month's PPMC Board Report we discussed
>>> making volunteers from the PPMC responsible for certain roles. We
>>> quickly proceeded with a Press Liaison due to the immediate need.
>>> Before settling on a larger set of roles let's have a discussion
>>> and come to a consensus.
>>>
>>> Types of roles or teams:
>>>
>>> (1) External or Marketing Team. Involving the relationship of the
>>> AOOo project community with the many communities in the OOo
>>> universe.
>>>
>>> - Press Liaison. (Don Harbison is currently filling this role.)
>>>
>>> - Security Officer. Responsible for security co-ordination with
>>> other entities.
>>>
>>
>> Worf?
>>
>> But seriously, we already have a security team in place, via the
>> ooo-security list.  Their responsibilities also include security
>> co-ordination.  But we could certainly use another 2 or 3
>> volunteers there, especially among active coders on the project.
>
> My thought is if we have someone on the PPMC who volunteers for first
> chance to answer security questions on ooo-dev or ooo-users then we
> will quickly have a common and measured response.
>
>>
>>> - TDF Liaison. Dedicated to the special relationship between AOOo
>>> and LO. (Would we have other special relationships?)
>>>
>>
>> All our relations are special.  But I assume it would be silly to
>> have a liaison to IBM Lotus Symphony.
>>
>>> - Brand Manager. Dedicated to the OOo brand.
>>>
>>
>> I think of that as being a marketing function.  Could break it
>> out, but these two functions would need to closely coordinate.
>> Maybe think of it this way:  I could certainly imagine a dedicated
>> ooo-marketing mailing list.  But I don't think an ooo-branding list
>> would get much traffic.
>>
>>> - Legal Affairs. Assure that copyright, license, and terms of use
>>> are all proper. That the NOTICE and LICENSE files are correct.
>>> Seek copyright assignments from authors where helpful. (Is this
>>> another team?)
>>>
>>
>> I think that is a core dev function, since it will mainly involve
>> changing heads in the source files, etc.  With the clarifications
>> we received from Robert, I don't see a problem here.  Also, this is
>> not an ongoing role.  Once we've done the initial IP processing,
>> the committers as a whole pay attention to IP requirements on a
>> daily basis.  So it is important for the committers as a whole to
>> all be familiar with the requirements here.
>
> I'm willing to move Legal to a different thread. We do need someone
> to help with TOU on the migration side. It is more to have one person
> asking Legal, not several people with variations.
>
> I haven't looked at Robert's comments other than I knew we needed to
> wait for Andrew to comment.
>
> Regards, Dave
>
>
>>
>>
>> -- Social media (or media in general), so press, blog, twitter,
>> facebook, etc.   Or maybe that goes with marketing?
>>
>> Obviously the answers here will depend on volunteers and how much
>> time they can dedicate to these tasks.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>> Regards, Dave
>>>
>>> On Oct 12, 2011, at 12:51 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Donald
>>>> Harbison<dpharbison@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Dave
>>>>> Fisher<dave2wave@comcast.net>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 12, 2011, at 10:18 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Dave
>>>>>>> Fisher<dave2wave@comcast.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Rob,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Oct 12, 2011, at 9:34 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Dave
>>>>>>>>> Fisher<dave2wave@comcast.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think that "we" as the AOOo PPMC will need to
>>>>>>>>>> find one or more PPMC
>>>>>> members to fulfill certain external roles.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am emphasizing EXTERNALLY facing roles. These people
>>>>>>>> would generally
>>>>>> be people with the talent of handling sensitive issues in a
>>>>>> delicate and appropriate manner on the list when they arise
>>>>>> seemingly out of place. Knowing that there are volunteers
>>>>>> available will help the rest of us focus on code or
>>>>>> migration.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps these roles are:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (1) Public face of Security for AOOo.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Work on handling security reports occurs on a private
>>>>>>>>> list, ooo-security.  It is not visible publicly, or
>>>>>>>>> even to the PPMC in general.  Where there needs to be
>>>>>>>>> a public communication, for example, to report a
>>>>>>>>> vulnerability, it comes from members of
>>>>>>>>> ooo-security. This is all per the recommended process
>>>>>>>>> from Apache Security [1].  The PPMC is welcome to
>>>>>>>>> debate and adopt contract guidelines, but I would not
>>>>>>>>> recommend it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The members of the ooo-security list are stated on
>>>>>>>>> our FAQ page [2]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So I think that part is already covered.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given what just happened with LO, we made improvements.
>>>>>>>> But I think that
>>>>>> some member of ooo-security needs to be watching for
>>>>>> security related questions as they appear on ooo-dev and
>>>>>> ooo-users. You and Dennis are very vocal across the whole
>>>>>> spectrum of AOOo issues. I think that there needs to be
>>>>>> someone we all know is on top of security and can publicly
>>>>>> contact.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The rest of us. Me, you, or whoever should refrain from
>>>>>>>> answering such
>>>>>> questions (or answer with deferment and deference). This
>>>>>> public facing person could generally speak for the group.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (2) Liaison with the TDF.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ideally, someone who is already both a PPMC member
>>>>>>>>> and a TDF member. We have several.  "Half liaisons"
>>>>>>>>> (someone who is a member of one organization but not
>>>>>>>>> the other) don't work quite as well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Half or full is not really the issue. Diplomatic and
>>>>>>>> measured response
>>>>>> that can both speak for the group and know when to defer
>>>>>> back to the podling is important. To me a non-TDF member
>>>>>> might be better.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (3) Press Liaison.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As a podling we're a bit limited here, per Podling
>>>>>>>>> guidelines [3], but there is certainly some scope for
>>>>>>>>> doing good work here, if someone wants to volunteer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Someone should be looking out at the real world and
>>>>>>>> letting us know
>>>>>> what's being said about AOOo and then striving to correct
>>>>>> the record. This needs to be someone on the PPMC. The
>>>>>> person is this role would work with press@a.o. They would
>>>>>> establish relationships, etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think it works that way.  I wish it did, but it
>>>>>>> doesn't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What we've seen is this:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1) Reporters are either monitoring this list, or more
>>>>>>> likely being tipped off by someone, pointing them to
>>>>>>> threads where there is juicy stuff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2) The write an article, quoting participants on this
>>>>>>> list. They are not picky.  They'll quote members and
>>>>>>> non-members alike, me, Dennis, Simony, whoever.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3) They then publish their article.  They never post a
>>>>>>> note to the list, send a note to Press@, ask who our
>>>>>>> press liaison is.  They are getting 50 bucks to write an
>>>>>>> article in 45 minutes, and that is what they do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is how it works.  If we want to change that, having
>>>>>>> a designated person is not enough, unless that person
>>>>>>> actually does the preemptive outreach.  If we wait for
>>>>>>> negative stories to be published we're too late.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well it looks like a tough job. You do bring up one main
>>>>>> benefit of a press liaison "preemptive outreach."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We need someone explicitly building the relationships,
>>>>>> becoming someone that the press will know to ask when they
>>>>>> want clarification before they publish something negative
>>>>>> or just plain wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will volunteer to tackle this in concert with press@a.o,
>>>>>> and Sally
>>>>> Khudairi, VP Publicity, ASF. Now where is that teflon suit?
>>>>> /don
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> +1 for Don as press liaison.  I've seen him do good work in
>>>> this area in other organizations.
>>>>
>>>> But shouldn't we raise these roles, the call for volunteers,
>>>> etc., in a new thread?  Right now it is buried in a PMC report
>>>> thread, which is not exactly a topic that attracts much
>>>> attention.
>>>>
>>>> -Rob
>>>>
>>>>>> Regards, Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (4) Brand Manager / Cat Herder.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You see those as the same thing?  We've had a couple
>>>>>>>>> requests for permission to use the OOo trademark and
>>>>>>>>> logo.  We handled those requests well, I thought.  I
>>>>>>>>> don't think there is a volume of such requests that
>>>>>>>>> would suggest we need a person dedicated to that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is more about herding of wiki, BZ, blogs, fora,
>>>>>>>> and websites to
>>>>>> have proper branding. Looking out for the OOo and AOOo
>>>>>> brand in the wild. It is cat herding because each of these
>>>>>> exist in both the legacy OOo site and in various stages of
>>>>>> migration.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> With people in these roles who are active then
>>>>>>>>>> perhaps the rest of us
>>>>>> can defer immediate responses to questions in these areas
>>>>>> when they occur on ooo-dev. With slight formality we might
>>>>>> be able to stop the periodic and damaging flames of
>>>>>> misunderstanding.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Other areas where we could use some volunteer
>>>>>>>>> leadership:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 5) wiki master
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 6) bugzilla master
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 7) web master
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> These are more obvious roles that are as much internal
>>>>>>>> to the project as
>>>>>> external. Never-the-less these are roles.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (8) User Forum sys admins - supplementing the current
>>>>>>>> proposal with
>>>>>> individuals like perhaps Drew.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Oct 12, 2011, at 9:50 AM, Donald Whytock wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 12:34 PM, Rob
>>>>>>>>> Weir<robweir@apache.org>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Other areas where we could use some volunteer
>>>>>>>>>> leadership:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <  snip>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> IP master?  Coordinating the re-licensing process,
>>>>>>>>> looking at external packages linked to, and being the
>>>>>>>>> go-to for future contributions?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sure -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (9) Legal Maven. Clearing Terms of Use with Apache
>>>>>>>> legal, checking
>>>>>> NOTICE and LICENSE, requesting authors relicense source,
>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards, Dave
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Don
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [1] http://www.apache.org/security/committers.html
>>>>>>>>> [2]
>>>>>>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/ppmc-faqs.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
[3] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/branding.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK

"There is no such thing as coincidence."
            -- Leroy Jethro Gibbs, Rule #39

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