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From "Dennis E. Hamilton" <>
Subject RE: Vulnerability fixed in LibreOffice
Date Thu, 06 Oct 2011 20:26:22 GMT
I don't want to go deep into this.

I do want to point out that observers can't tell when they are seeing a newcomer-to-Apache-PPMC
insisting on what the Apache Way is, versus what the Apache Way is.  This is a podling.  Of
the 55-or-so established PPMC members, around 5 were already Apache committers on other projects
and, as far as I can tell, not one of those that was not also a ASF member had been on a [P]PMC
before.  I think it is a fair distance between a newborn and "responsible Apache people."
 That podlings are mainly to be self-training, does not mean that potty training is unnecessary.
 If that is mystifying to onlookers, imagine how it is for those of us in the thick of it.

One critical factor in the successful operation of the Apache Way is communication.  With
a flat, almost headless organization structure, serious transparency and open communication
is essential.  Otherwise our efforts become much worse than that of herdless cats.  A complex
undertaking such as can't succeed that way.  One practice that seems to be
missing, even when discrete/private communication is involved, is the "when in doubt, communicate"
as opposed to folks deciding for themselves what is worth communicating and what others shouldn't
be concerned about.  

I am making a general observation.  I don't have the insider knowledge that would reveal how
much that figures in the present situation, if at all.

It is the case that an external observer might not be able to differentiate adult discussion
of policy and the back-and-forth that refines to a mutual understanding from what an experienced
observer would recognize as bulldozing and discount accordingly.

There is a lot that each of us has to learn in knowing when to ask questions rather than presume
answers or assume that they are seeing authoritative statements of fact.  I would say that
it falls on the PPMC members, in particular, to assure that the environment is an invitation
to the vital conversation that is required for this project to thrive.

 - Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: Rory O'Farrell [] 
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 09:16
Subject: Re: Vulnerability fixed in LibreOffice

[ ... ]

With respect, it is not the tone of my_ emails that need
amelioration, but the blanket insistence from some posters that
Apache methods must rule always. I have been careful not to
attribute personal blame in this thread; I make a general comment
on this tendency of absolute insistence on an Apache way, as it
seems to me, and as I know from off channel communications, to
other newcomers

Rory O'Farrell <>

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