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From "Dennis E. Hamilton" <dennis.hamil...@acm.org>
Subject RE: [SPAM] Re: [Proposal] Shutting down legacy OOo mailing lists
Date Wed, 19 Oct 2011 21:04:11 GMT
John,

The list ooo-users@incubator.apache.org is proposed to be the replacement for 
users@OO.o and discuss@OO.o.  You can subscribe to ooo-users@ by sending an 
e-mail from the e-mail address you want to be subscribed from to 
ooo-users-subscribe@incubator.apache.org .  If that succeeds, you will receive 
a response from the list robot, ooo-users-help@incubator.apache.org that tells 
you what to do next to confirm your subscription.

I see that you were having trouble subscribing to ooo-users at the beginning 
of September.  Is that still not working for you?

 - Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: John Boyle [mailto:jboyle@harbornet.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 13:33
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [Proposal] Shutting down legacy OOo mailing lists

On 10/19/2011 12:21 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
> <dennis.hamilton@acm.org>  wrote:
>> Concerning subscriptions to many lists in order to make announcements, 
>> etc., I think if you have an OpenOffice.org ID, it will go rather smoothly. 
>> You can then use the web pages that provide subscribe buttons for blocks of 
>> lists and work rather quickly.  The archive view (useful in knowing how 
>> [in]active a list is) also has a form for sending a message to the 
>> just-subscribed list.
>>
>> There may be some of these lists where the project is considered private 
>> and subscription is moderated.  I know there are lists, such as 
>> announcement@ OO.o where the posts are also moderated.
>>
> FWIW, I'm only looking at "community" discussion lists.  I'm not
> touching any uni-directional "utility" lists, like ones that echo bug
> reports, commit notifications, etc.
>
>> Here are the www mailing lists:<http://openoffice.org/projects/www/lists>.

>> You must be logged in to see the Subscribe buttons and other information. 
>> To make a post, go to the archive, open any message, and then select Reply 
>> to List in the little pull-down on the form.
>>
>> The Projects mailing lists are on the Projects A-Z tab 
>> of<http://openoffice.org/projects>.  Each project has its own page for 
>> managing all of its subscriptions, subscribing, etc.  (Again, I think you 
>> must be logged in to OpenOffice.org to see everything that is on these 
>> pages.)
>>
>>   - Dennis
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 05:57
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [Proposal] Shutting down legacy OOo mailing lists
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Kay Schenk<kay.schenk@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>> On 10/17/2011 09:20 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Dave Fisher<dave2wave@comcast.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Oct 17, 2011, at 8:45 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Dave
>>>>>> Fisher<dave2wave@comcast.net>    wrote:
>>>>>>> I like your proposal. I have some comments inline.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 16, 2011, at 3:12 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm making a proposal now to shut down the legacy OOo mailing
>>>>>>>> lists and direct the existing subscribers to one of the AOOo
>>>>>>>> mailing lists. I realize that this is not the solution that
>>>>>>>> many of us would prefer, but I believe that it is the best
>>>>>>>> way forward that anyone is willing to volunteer to lead.
>>>>>>>> Please delight me by proving me wrong on this, by objecting
>>>>>>>> this this proposal *and volunteering to do an alternative
>>>>>>>> migration*.   But this approach is more graceful than the
>>>>>>>> default, if we do nothing, of just having the lists just
go
>>>>>>>> down one day and not recover.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Proposal:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If not one objects and offers to lead a different transition
>>>>>>>> plan, in one week I will do the following:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1) Make a list of all public legacy OOo mailing lists that
>>>>>>>> have received at least 5 non-spam email in 2011.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2) Publish that list on the wiki, along with :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a) the language predominately spoken on the list, if not
>>>>>>>> English
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> b) the recommended AOOo list that existing subscribers should
>>>>>>>> be pointed to.
>>>>>>> c) the list's OOo/Kenai project.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> No objections to having that info on the wiki, but I don't see
>>>>>> where that info helps with the migration.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At the end of the week the ML list should be incorporated in
>>>>>>> the OOo properties that Dennis and I are "noodling" over.
>>>>>>> (Language is another property.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3) I will then draft, in English,  a post to be send to the
>>>>>>>> above lists.
>>> Some of the lists in question may be moderated. Hopefully you/we won't run
>>> into any issues about that.
>>>
>> Hi Kay,
>>
>> Could you explain what the issue would be here?  I was assuming I
>> would join each of the mailing lists, in order to send the
>> notification post. I'd then be there on the list to also answer any
>> questions.  Are there lists that I cannot subscribe to without
>> moderator approval?  Do you know which ones?
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>
>>>   The post will talk about the overall effort of
>>>>>>>> the migration to Apache, the specific migration of the
>>>>>>>> mailing lists, and invite the subscribers to stay informed
>>>>>>>> and to participate in the new Apache lists.  Information
on
>>>>>>>> how to subscribe will be provided.  A shutdown date, for
the
>>>>>>>> legacy lists will be included, two weeks from the posting
>>>>>>>> date.
>>>>>>> It would be good to co-ordinate this message with a general
>>>>>>> timeline for the OOo migration. We should be clear about what
>>>>>>> is NOT being migrated and what is possible if the community
>>>>>>> disagrees..
>>> Yes. We definitely need to work on such a statement (wiki page)
>>>
>>>>>> Great.  If we have a good statement on overall migration, we can
>>>>>> include that.  Or if it is still "work in progress" I can link
>>>>>> a wiki page where the latest info can be found.  But there is no
>>>>>> technical requirement for us to figure everything out before we
>>>>>> move forward on independent pieces that we do understand.  We've
>>>>>> done that already in other areas, like source code, issue
>>>>>> tracking, and soon the forums.   And in general, it is to our
>>>>>> benefit to move ahead with the pieces we do understand,
>>>>>> especially communications vehicles, so we're not caught in a bad
>>>>>> situation if the legacy servers unexpectedly became unavailable.
>>>>>> It is prudent to ensure that we have the main means of
>>>>>> communication solidly on Apache servers sooner rather than
>>>>>> later.
>>>>> It will certainly be a work in progress, the more the ML changes
>>>>> are put in the context of the total migration the better.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 4) I will invite volunteers to translate the draft post into
>>>>>>>> other languages.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 5) I, and whatever volunteers wish to help, will send the
>>>>>>>> posts to the lists.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 6) The note will be repeated a week later.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 7) After two weeks we request via Oracle that the Kenai
>>>>>>>> admins close the lists, per:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://kenai.com/projects/help/pages/ManageProject#MailingLists
>>>>>>>
>>> [ this para is from Dave's response. I don't know why it's not staying
>>> put...sorrry!]
>>> In the three to four weeks that it will take to get to step (7) AOOo and
>>> Apache Infra should have control over the openoffice.org MX records. An
>>> easier alternative would be to decide what MX services we want to continue
>>> on openoffice.org and do the MX migration at this point. Even if it will
>>> bounce and/or forward email.
>>>>>> I'd be opposed to any automatic forwarding of list traffic or
>>>>>> indiscriminate transferring of subscriptions from the legacy
>>>>>> lists. Several of the legacy lists are are over-run by spammers.
>>>>>> An earlier poster said they get 80-120 moderation requests per
>>>>>> day.  We have a good opportunity to "clean house" and to leave
>>>>>> the spammers behind.
>>>>> Let's not forget that there are a number of people who make use of
>>>>> their @openoffice.org email address. We owe it to these people to
>>>>> give them some time to react if these are being dropped. There are
>>>>> also implications with BZ - at least in bug ownership and accounts.
>>>>> We've "bikeshedded" on these addresses, we now need a plan. If
>>>>> someone cares enough about openoffice.org personal email addresses
>>>>> we'll need volunteers to work out the details.
>>>>>
>>>> Nothing I've proposed will impact the @openoffice.org mail
>>>> forwarding service.   That is an independent issue that we need to
>>>> develop a plan for and communicate. But it is reasonable that when we
>>>> announce mailing list changes that we'll also get questions related
>>>> to the forwarding service.
>>>>
>>>> It makes me think that we would benefit from a single user-facing
>>>> page on the current status of the migration.  What has moved, what
>>>> hasn't, what the general plan is.  Something with a lot less
>>>> technical detail than we have on the wiki right now.  A high level
>>>> summary that we can point users to.
>>>>
>>>> -Rob
>>>>
>>>>> Regards, Dave
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> MzK
>>>
>>> "There is no such thing as coincidence."
>>>            -- Leroy Jethro Gibbs, Rule #39
>>>
>>
>
To Rob Weir, et al: I now have the wiki page bookmarked , but as of yet
I had no idea where to look to see what the recommended new user lists
or otherwise will be. I do not have any programming skills, I am
basically just a user of the product. I just happen to think if you're
going to do this combining And translating, that a list should be made
of the proposed new lists.I did not know there were 303 lists associated
with OOo! That is a surprise to me. I am mostly interested in keeping
some kind of users list active, so that I can learn more of how to use
the product. I got on the ooo-dev. list mostly by accident, as I wasn't
clear on how to just get on the new users list. I have stayed on this
list, as this way I learned what you are planning to do with the whole
program and it has been very interesting, although I have had to delete
some because it was beyond me and what I could do. So, can you give me
an idea of what the new lists will be called and how soon will we be
forced to change?:-)

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