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From "Dennis E. Hamilton" <>
Subject RE: [DISCUSS] Review of Forums Agreement
Date Tue, 18 Oct 2011 03:21:59 GMT
So, shall it simply be concluded that the proposal in its current form has been accepted without

 - Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Weir [] 
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 17:57
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Review of Forums Agreement

On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton <> wrote:
> The stated [DISCUSS] expiration of midnight, today, 2011-10-17T24:00Z has arrived.
> The discussion has quieted and there appears to be no objection to conducting a [VOTE]
ratifying the PPMC acceptance of the proposal, with the modest adjustments that were made.
> On a different thread, it was observed that, since there is no further discussion, and
there was no opposition, the proposal should be considered ratified, a sort of lazy consensus:
> <>.
> I want to be clear, that this [DISCUSS] was not for voting but to review the proposal
in preparation for voting.  Although it might be assumed that there is no objection to the
proposal's adoption by the PPMC, that was not the question.
> I am also concerned that the Forum operators are being denied an important
ceremonial act on our part.
> Since it would take as long to introduce a lazy consensus, now, as to actually conduct
the [VOTE], I intend to go ahead with the [VOTE] once I come up with an appropriate wording
and message.  Then it will all be clear, won't it?

Actually, I object to the ceremony of a poorly motivated vote..  There
were no objections to the proposal.  The forum volunteers should go
ahead and implement the proposal.

Your use of the term "ratify" is meaningless since there is no such
thing at Apache.  Your introductory note also talked about "the
commitment of the Apache OO.o Podling to implementation of the
proposal...".  This is also meaningless.  I commit to nothing.  Those
who volunteer to do the work are the ones who do the work.  The
proposal didn't ask the PPMC to do anything.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christian Grobmeier []
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 00:09
> To:
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Review of Forums Agreement
> 2011/10/13 J├╝rgen Schmidt <>:
>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 8:55 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton <>wrote:
>> Wondering why the discussion is on the wiki as comments?
>> Juergen
> There was discussion on this list, onn the forum, on the wiki and then
> back on the forum. These wiki comments are meanwhile outdated, you can
> basically ignore them, except you have an "historical interest". But
> then you should also read the forums.
> Cheers
>>> Once discussion of the Draft Proposal has quieted by that time or later,
>>> discussion can stop.  If it is then evident that a ratifying ballot on
>>> acceptance of the Draft Proposal by the Apache OO.o Podling can be held, a
>>> separate [VOTE] will be initiated on the ooo-dev list for that purpose.
>>> Ratification of the Draft Proposal will establish the commitment of the
>>> Apache
>>> OO.o Podling to implementation of the proposal and honoring its provisions
>>> for
>>> governance of the Forums as part of the Apache OO.o Podling.
>>> The Draft Proposal represents the current thinking of the
>>> Forums operators.  PLEASE DO NOT EDIT THE DRAFT PROPOSAL page.
>>> Instead, discuss suggestions and modifications on this list and await any
>>> changes to be made as the Forum operators choose to offer
>>> improvements in response to the discussion, including based on ooo-dev
>>> suggestions of their own.
>>> When it is concluded that the Draft Proposal is in a final condition
>>> suitable
>>> for ratification, the Forum operators will notify us of
>>> their
>>> readiness (repeatedly if there is still ongoing discussion and
>>> improvement).
>>>  - Dennis
> --

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