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From "Dennis E. Hamilton" <>
Subject RE: [Proposal] Shutting down legacy OOo mailing lists
Date Wed, 19 Oct 2011 20:05:13 GMT
I would hope that it is now recognized how much anguish is created by asking 
folks to come to one of our few lists to discuss the future of the OO.o list 
they are on and happy with already.  Also, those users generally do not 
understand why slash-and-burn and piling into camps is necessary.  It looks 
easy to them.

I strongly recommend that the conversation be on the threatened lists, since 
it will be anyhow, and that the conversation be kept in that one place for 
coherence.   (I invite ooo-dev, ooo-users, and ooo-marketing subscribers to 
come to the threatened lists as well to support engagement of those related 
communities and demonstrate our good intentions.)

 - Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Weir []
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 12:17
Subject: Re: [Proposal] Shutting down legacy OOo mailing lists

On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
<> wrote:
> My concern for this proposal is that it doesn't involve engaging any of the 
> community, it simply tells them a two-week-out date where 
> something will happen and there is no opportunity for dialog.

I don't think that is an accurate statement of what I am proposing.  I
intend to be very specific about what will happen in the note to the
mailing lists.  It wull not be mysterious.

As for "dialog",

1) The initial note would point out the existence of ooo-users and
ooo-dev and (by that time) ooo-marketing and invite them to join those
lists if they wanted to further dialog.

2) I would subscribe to each of the lists receiving the notification
and be available to answer any questions users might direct to those

> Maybe publishing the list on the wiki (the presumption being anything not on 
> that list is simply shut down?) will help.  Maybe assistance will come 
> forward if there is more regret in what is foreseen and it is made know that 
> help is welcome and valued?  Do you see this as something that can be 
> adjusted for or is it necessary for someone to take it off your hands to do 
> that much?

My proposal included putting a list on the wiki.  So that part will be 


>  - Dennis
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Weir []
> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 15:13
> To:
> Subject: [Proposal] Shutting down legacy OOo mailing lists
> I'm making a proposal now to shut down the legacy OOo mailing lists
> and direct the existing subscribers to one of the AOOo mailing lists.
> I realize that this is not the solution that many of us would prefer,
> but I believe that it is the best way forward that anyone is willing
> to volunteer to lead.  Please delight me by proving me wrong on this,
> by objecting this this proposal *and volunteering to do an alternative
> migration*.   But this approach is more graceful than the default, if
> we do nothing, of just having the lists just go down one day and not
> recover.
> Proposal:
> If not one objects and offers to lead a different transition plan, in
> one week I will do the following:
> 1) Make a list of all public legacy OOo mailing lists that have
> received at least 5 non-spam email in 2011.
> 2) Publish that list on the wiki, along with :
> a) the language predominately spoken on the list, if not English
> b) the recommended AOOo list that existing subscribers should be pointed to.
> 3) I will then draft, in English,  a post to be send to the above
> lists.  The post will talk about the overall effort of the migration
> to Apache, the specific migration of the mailing lists, and invite the
> subscribers to stay informed and to participate in the new Apache
> lists.  Information on how to subscribe will be provided.  A shutdown
> date, for the legacy lists will be included, two weeks from the
> posting date.
> 4) I will invite volunteers to translate the draft post into other 
> languages.
> 5) I, and whatever volunteers wish to help, will send the posts to the 
> lists.
> 6) The note will be repeated a week later.
> 7) After two weeks we request via Oracle that the Kenai admins close
> the lists, per:
> -Rob

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