From ooo-dev-return-4919-apmail-incubator-ooo-dev-archive=incubator.apache.org@incubator.apache.org Sun Sep 4 15:07:19 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-incubator-ooo-dev-archive@minotaur.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-ooo-dev-archive@minotaur.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C6FE77A23 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2011 15:07:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 71578 invoked by uid 500); 4 Sep 2011 15:07:19 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-ooo-dev-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 71353 invoked by uid 500); 4 Sep 2011 15:07:18 -0000 Mailing-List: contact ooo-dev-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 71288 invoked by uid 99); 4 Sep 2011 15:07:17 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sun, 04 Sep 2011 15:07:17 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=FREEMAIL_FROM,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,SPF_PASS,T_TO_NO_BRKTS_FREEMAIL X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: domain of grobmeier@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.175 as permitted sender) Received: from [209.85.210.175] (HELO mail-iy0-f175.google.com) (209.85.210.175) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sun, 04 Sep 2011 15:07:12 +0000 Received: by iagz35 with SMTP id z35so5343827iag.6 for ; Sun, 04 Sep 2011 08:06:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=RikLmunPbp6cfZ+wXUGaKYr908owym1M86N8WEDLFTg=; b=x6Ov8yxpeh0gKSsrTCNtyegjJ2iGGxyG5lks76ZLlWErDxgfQycKXJw5Z4XBWnDHBU Cn4vti1KonGmQL2LZd6NVj67DwaCQ/Z7WO7E9VV39AbVbxF/04nAMAYyK8VxI/zkEkje 53hZ48HALOovtdwphUPPvbbatgQS9vM+jOLwk= Received: by 10.42.76.8 with SMTP id c8mr2964775ick.302.1315148812051; Sun, 04 Sep 2011 08:06:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.176.71 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Sep 2011 08:06:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4E5FB6F0.2060504@ellisons.org.uk> <4E5FC756.5010106@ellisons.org.uk> <4E5FD55C.40207@ellisons.org.uk> <4E5FE090.2020506@apache.org> <014801cc68e5$d5fd5290$81f7f7b0$@acm.org> <1314911707.1938.55.camel@sybil> <4E60193C.4090304@shanecurcuru.org> <4E606C19.40005@ellisons.org.uk> From: Christian Grobmeier Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 17:06:32 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: An invitation to committers to the OOo Community Forums To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> If behavior discussions are going to occur at all, it's probably >> better that they happen in public rather than there be the feeling of >> a secret faceless committee to which users can neither respond nor >> appeal. =C2=A0The latter can lead to discontent. >> > > Exactly. =C2=A0And where do users go to complain about moderators? ooo-dev@ ;-) ooo-private@ > I had one person contact me off list, not about the support forum > moderation specifically, but about moderation in another part of OOo. > He had concerns about heavy-handiness in moderation, of unpopular > views being booted. This is not a matter of private discussion on users behavior or not. > We shouldn't hide our heads in the sand and pretend that everything at > OOo was perfect and that everyone got along, and everyone was happy. > This is not true. There were power centers within the project, there > was abuse and there was discontent. =C2=A0LibreOffice didn't just happen = on > a whim. > > I think a jolt of transparency will do us much good. =C2=A0We need to lea= rn > to collaborate well with each other openly. We need to be moderate in > moderation. =C2=A0If we think we need 30 private moderation forums and 30 > moderators in order to do user support, then that is a warning sign > crying out that we're doing the wrong thing. I think 30 are really to much. But one might be OK. One question: how much moderation is actually happening? And why? Is it really users behavior? In fact I can't imagine 30 boards are necessary for only keeping trolls out. If possible, some stats would be fine to have a better understanding of the issue. > Like I asked before, if we had zero private moderator forums, what bad > thing would happen? =C2=A0Why can we replace secret tribunals with open, > peer pressure and leadership by example? Really, is the situation so worse that "secret tribunals" is a matching term? (I really don't know, its not a rethoric question). I am all for openess don't get me wrong. The other mail today from Terry showed me there something strange going on. People simply want to use the tools they have used before. They want to speak their language. I think this should be possible. Reducing the "tribunal" factor to a minimum is a very good thing. I just don't want to read of some moderators discussing my grandmoms behavior in public. > > -Rob > >> Don >> > --=20 http://www.grobmeier.de