From ooo-dev-return-5226-apmail-incubator-ooo-dev-archive=incubator.apache.org@incubator.apache.org Tue Sep 6 15:57:52 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-incubator-ooo-dev-archive@minotaur.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-ooo-dev-archive@minotaur.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 109177089 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2011 15:57:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 37864 invoked by uid 500); 6 Sep 2011 15:57:51 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-ooo-dev-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 37786 invoked by uid 500); 6 Sep 2011 15:57:51 -0000 Mailing-List: contact ooo-dev-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 37778 invoked by uid 99); 6 Sep 2011 15:57:50 -0000 Received: from minotaur.apache.org (HELO minotaur.apache.org) (140.211.11.9) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 06 Sep 2011 15:57:50 +0000 Received: from localhost (HELO mail-ey0-f173.google.com) (127.0.0.1) (smtp-auth username robweir, mechanism plain) by minotaur.apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 06 Sep 2011 15:57:50 +0000 Received: by eyb7 with SMTP id 7so4487454eyb.18 for ; Tue, 06 Sep 2011 08:57:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.14.14.155 with SMTP id d27mr1725124eed.189.1315324668740; Tue, 06 Sep 2011 08:57:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.188.15 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Sep 2011 08:57:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4E663F41.3090503@btconnect.com> References: <4E654A51.90508@laposte.net> <009601cc6ca5$1bbb11b0$53313510$@acm.org> <4E663F41.3090503@btconnect.com> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 11:57:48 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: What is needed for Support Forums to be fully integrated into the Apache OpenOffice.org project From: Rob Weir To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 11:41 AM, David McKay wrote: > > On 06/09/2011 15:56, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: >> >> Christian, >> >> What I find awkward around all of these discussions is that there are >> already several Apache OOo PPMC members who were and are already >> administrators and moderators on the OpenOffice.org forums, and not one = of >> them stood up here, on ooo-dev, and said so. >> >> It boggles my mind how much withholding is going on. >> >> =C2=A0- Dennis > > Not strictly true. I've said several times that I was a moderator on the > forums. This is getting to too much like the emperor's new clothes. > > Does it have to be more complicated than this: agree the high-level point= s > and them work out the detail. As far as i can see the main points are as > follows. > > 1) The forums bring great value to the Ooo community and project alike. T= he > more help the end users get the better. The more bugs that are brought to > our attention and find their way into bugzilla the better. It is already = one > well-founded and respected face of OOo to the outside world. > > 2) The forums need a new home. > > 3) For that home to be under the Apache umbrella, as a minimum, it requir= es > some tweaking of the forum management/administration, or at least, a > permanent visible record of the management/administration actions. > > 4) Collaboratively, we ought to be able to get this done. > All nice statements. But we had nice statements before. It is time to back up nice statements with a true common understanding, including a written proposal from this autonomous forum volunteers on how they wish to operate within the AOOo project, a proposal that the entire PPMC can review and disucss and hopefully approve. This level of formality, having an actual proposal, will raising the level of discourse from from bitter arguments on the list to saying actually what you plan to do. It also makes the understanding concrete and memorializes it so both the forum volunteers and the PPMC can refer to it in the future when memories fade. Remember, we don't create a new mailing list in this project without someone actually submitting a proposal and having a discussion. We should not be migrating years of content, bring on board 75 new project volunteers with a very different operating style, with many connections to the rest of the AOOo and Apache Infra, without having that same level of diligence. In any area that has been rife with misunderstandings, this is not the place to rush. We should tone down the discussions and hash out the details with greater civility. But let's take our time and ensure that we're all on common ground when this is over. > Dave. > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Christian Grobmeier [mailto:grobmeier@gmail.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 02:58 >> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org >> Subject: Re: What is needed for Support Forums to be fully integrated in= to >> the Apache OpenOffice.org project >> >>> We are a group of users who believes in OOo. >>> We like to help other users through forums (some like ML, we prefer >>> forum, >>> that's life). >> >> This all and then tons of work you already have done (up to 18.000 >> posts!!) should make you eligible as an ASF committer. >> >> Cheers >> >> [ ... ] >> >> >