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From Larry Gusaas <larry.gus...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: An invitation to committers to the OOo Community Forums
Date Fri, 02 Sep 2011 18:47:16 GMT

On 2011-09-02 12:16 PM  Rob Weir wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Donald Whytock<dwhytock@gmail.com>  wrote:
>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Christian Grobmeier<grobmeier@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>> Do you really want to discuss a users behavior in public?
>>> Wow, I really don't want to do that. I strongly believe that only a
>>> few people would discuss another guys behavior in public.
>> It happens.  In fact it happened here, on this list, yesterday.  There
>> was some pretty excessive vitriol, open and in public.  And yet it
>> seemed to work into more mature and rational discussion today.
>>
>> If behavior discussions are going to occur at all, it's probably
>> better that they happen in public rather than there be the feeling of
>> a secret faceless committee to which users can neither respond nor
>> appeal.  The latter can lead to discontent.
>>
> Exactly.  And where do users go to complain about moderators?
I had problems with a moderator on http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/index.php
a few 
years ago. I complained about his removal of posts of mine that disagreed with him and his

removal of a new thread complaining about his removals. His moderator privileges were removed,

and he subsequently left the forum.

> I had one person contact me off list, not about the support forum
> moderation specifically, but about moderation in another part of OOo.
> He had concerns about heavy-handiness in moderation, of unpopular
> views being booted.
And what has that got to do with the forum? The forum is not part of OOo on Oracle. It is
just 
hosted on their server. The other older OOo forum is hosted on their own server.

> We shouldn't hide our heads in the sand and pretend that everything at
> OOo was perfect and that everyone got along, and everyone was happy.
> This is not true. There were power centers within the project, there
> was abuse and there was discontent.  LibreOffice didn't just happen on
> a whim.
Again, irrelevant to discussion about http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/index.php

> I think a jolt of transparency will do us much good.  We need to learn
> to collaborate well with each other openly. We need to be moderate in
> moderation.  If we think we need 30 private moderation forums and 30
> moderators in order to do user support, then that is a warning sign
> crying out that we're doing the wrong thing.
>
> Like I asked before, if we had zero private moderator forums, what bad
> thing would happen?  Why can we replace secret tribunals with open,
> peer pressure and leadership by example?
Perhaps you should take up Terry's offer to email him requesting access to all parts of the

forum.  He will then raise you to "volunteer" so that you can see the main closed forums.
You 
could spend some time there to his how an user community driven forum works. Then you could

make informed comments about how to incorporate it into Apache without alienating the 
volunteers on that forum who give support. So far, their impression of Apache OOo is not 
great.

Terry Ellison is a great asset that some people on this project have successfully managed
to 
alienate.

-- 
_________________________________

Larry I. Gusaas
Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
Website: http://larry-gusaas.com
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - Edgard Varese



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