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From Christian Grobmeier <>
Subject Re: [RT] Create a second incubator podling - the ooo forums
Date Tue, 06 Sep 2011 12:56:35 GMT
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 2:17 PM, Joe Schaefer <> wrote:
> Sorry, but if this were put to a vote on general@incubator
> I'd likely vote -1 as it is out of scope for the incubator
> to incubate a non-software-development related group.

We knew when we voted for ooo to come to apache that we might change
things at apache site.
In addition, there is software to be maintained: the forums itself.
There will never be releases except for our own use.
One thing which hurts me more is that the used phpBB forum is GPL'ed

As we (ASF) has the slogan "community over code" I wonder why we can't
change this to allow community building on the non-dev group.

In addition, we have community related projects:

"Our aim here is to help newcomers to The Apache Software Foundation
take their first steps on their way to being a part of our community."

The Apache community is there, we need to pick them up
now or they will vanish.

If the incubator is really not the place to incubate them, we probably
need to discuss making them a foundation project?

> Frankly we have no business overseeing this work on anything more
> than a formal level because we have no institutional experience
> with forums and their management.

We have not had experience with end user related software like before and that didn't block us to accept it for

There are many people on the forum site who have experience with
running it. My guess is that some committers on ooo-dev would
subscribe to ooo-forums too.

> To say that I've long been frustrated with the general level
> of civility on all sides towards this project is an understatement.


> I was willing to extend my neck out pretty far to accommodate
> Terry's unique needs, but don't feel that he was inclined to
> reciprocate and was aiming for the exit door for quite a while
> now.

Actually Terry has spoken for more people than himself, so it seems to me.
There is much frustration on other people too. It is unfair to blame
Terry alone for were we are now.

> Now that it's finally come to fruition I do wonder where
> we go from here.  I'd appreciate more input from the forum
> volunteers on what their thoughts are.

I have spoken with the people there. The forum folks have posted here.
The forum has worked as an somehow independent project so far (as I learned).

What kind of thoughts do you want? There are already tons of posts of
all people.

> Maybe there's still a way to
> salvage this situation amicably,  but I suspect the civility
> problem will continue to hinder any progress in this direction.

That might be. This is one of the reasons why I think that two more or
less  independent projects
should not be forged together with force. This will not work out very well.

As Rob said in this thread, there are many people on the forum (75).
This is already a huge number!
They want to have the power to vote new moderators in as they need it.
The coders need an oversight on this because all the forum committers
get svn access. I can understand both parties in this point.

Even when there are two projects, community driven and development
project, the projects are huge.


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