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From Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] NL Mailing Lists (was RE: [PROPOSAL] Set up of ooo-dev-ja at incubator.apache.org)
Date Fri, 09 Sep 2011 16:59:15 GMT
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
<dennis.hamilton@acm.org> wrote:
> I am changing the topic of this branch of the discussion.
>
> I am worried about some problems with mailing lists and migration of OpenOffice.org.
 If the problems are allowed, it should be on purpose.
>
> I suggest discussing those problems before the situation is made worse.  I will move
this topic to the OOOUSER wiki on the weekend.
>
> PERSONAL CONCERN:
>
>  1. The current list arrangement is technically superior to what is proposed for replacement.
>

Could be be more specific about what you think is technically superior
about the existing approach?  And by that I assume you mean the 332
existing OOo mailing lists?

>  2. Shutting down the resources of a community and expecting that community to migrate
itself onto an alternative will deteriorate if not completely lose the participation of that
community.
>

Is this really true?  Have you looked at recent traffic on
ooo-dev@i.a.o versus dev@oo.o, for example?

And was your dire prediction true of LibreOffice?  I don't think so.

Certainly there is a tipping point, when a critical mass of
participants move over from one list to another.  That takes time.
This is encouraged by giving a consistent message about the migration,
something we've failed to do so far.  For example, even after we
agreed to create ooo-users, I see you talking about this, on that list
and elsewhere, as a mistake.  That is not helping.

-Rob

> TO CONSIDER:
>
> Preservation of the existing mailing lists and their services; the means for doing so.
>
> Migration of the existing mailing list services and content onto Apache hosting along
with OpenOffice.org hosting.
>
> Restoration of moderation and support of the lists themselves.
>
> Within the existing structure and subscriber community of each NL group: simplification,
consolidation, or retirement (with preservation) of existing lists that are redundant, inactive,
or too specialized to sustain.
>
> Adjustment of the operational support to satisfy ASF requirements for oversight and accountability.
>
> Transfer of lists to different services and operation only when loss of functionality
and community disruption is minimized.
>
> Automatic continuation of the established community and subscriptions on any migration
onto different list systems.
>
> Involvement and engagement of the existing NL group community in each step of the way.
 Minimize avoidable disaffection.
>
>  - Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: joesch04@web.de [mailto:joesch04@web.de]
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 01:55
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Set up of ooo-dev-ja at incubator.apache.org
>
> Hello,
>
> Dave Fisher schrieb:
>> > if you mix everything like user questions and answers,
>> marketing, QA
>> > et cetra on only *one ML*, you will alienate the poor users.
>> >
>> > But it seems to be the way it is.
>> > so ... I wish you all the best.
>>
>> I understand your concerns about mixing marketing with users.
>> What are the other categories besides marketing that users
>> should be shielded from? Translation? We've been mentored to
>> only have additional lists for good reason and with careful
>> consideration of the community and our oversight
>> responsibilities to the ASF.
>
> It is very, very simple.
>
> The list users@de.openoffice.org is a list ONLY for german-speaking users. This
> users a _not Community-members_ but only users and this users cannot write
> questions in english.
> The list users@de.openoffice.org is a support-list for users, not a list to
> coordinate the activity of the project-members.
>
> OK, we can replace users@de.openoffice.org by a german forum but the users just
> like users@de.openoffice.org, and it would be better to have a German-language
> forum AND a german USERS-list.
>
>
>
> Greetings
> Jörg
>
> --
> www.calc-info.de
>
>
>

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