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From Rob Weir <>
Subject Re: [RT] Create a second incubator podling - the ooo forums
Date Tue, 06 Sep 2011 13:27:48 GMT
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 9:13 AM, Joe Schaefer <> wrote:
> Up until a few days ago I thought we had one.
> Move the forums over to the ASF, give the PPMC
> and ASF members the full ability (upon request)
> to oversee allcommunications within the forums,
> and life goeson.  I see no need for the Volunteers
> to join the PPMC or anything like that, just keep
> doing whatever you're doing and keep the PPMC abreast
> of anything report-worthy when they need to report
> to the board.  If the Volunteers want to incorporate
> some Apache-style voting processes into their ops,
> go for it!

And if I wanted to create a group called the "Calc developer
volunteers", could we join the project, with the understanding the
rest of the project would leave us alone?  We would vote in our own
committers, etc,. independently of the normal PMC process.  We would
conduct our business on restricted-access mailing lists, not visible
to the public.  But on request we'd allow PMC members to join these

Ignore for a second the IP implications.  That is really a red
herring.  The point is meritocracy, decision making and PMC oversight.
 Think of similar analogies with non-release aspects of the project,
like web site design, documentation, wikis, etc.

Where else does Apache have a meritocracy embedded in a project that
does not commune with the PMC?  In an ideal world, where everything
just worked, and there were never any disagreements or disputes, then
this might work.  But in that world we wouldn't need a PMC or an ASF
Board either.  In any case, we don't live in such a world.

It is bizarre, but I hear people advocating for community
fragmentation in the name of community unity.  Having two parallel
meritocracies within the same project is fragmentation.  I don't see
how we can call it anything else.


>>From: Rory O'Farrell <>
>>Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 9:08 AM
>>Subject: Re: [RT] Create a second incubator podling - the ooo forums
>>On Tue, 6 Sep 2011 05:49:09 -0700 (PDT)
>>Joe Schaefer <> wrote:
>>> So to answer your questions, yes it certainly could be done
>>> within the Apache structure.  No it probably cannot be done
>>> to host stuff here on behalf of some third party.
>>Thanks, that is helpful in clarifying options.
>>So to be hosted on Apache one would need to find some mechanism whereby a forum would
fit into Apache; by your earlier post you do not think there is such a mechanism. Might Apache
be prepared to modify (by extension) their structures to accomodate these?  This becomes
a problem for the legal draughtsmen, of course.  The old rule of £minimal change" ought
>>I'm not asking for a change, just exploring the possibility of one.
>>Rory O'Farrell <>

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