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From Rob Weir <>
Subject Re: [RT] Create a second incubator podling - the ooo forums
Date Tue, 06 Sep 2011 13:39:00 GMT
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Joe Schaefer <> wrote:
> It's called delegation Rob, and it's done all the
> time within the ASF.  The PPMC can delegate ALL
> management/oversight aspects to whomever is on
> the PPMC that is also involved with the forums.
> So long as 1 person on the PPMC is watching over
> the activity, and anything noteworthy gets passed
> along to the board via PPMC reports, it's a perfectly
> humane way of conducting yourselves.

So we can delegate selection of approval of committers to a single
PPMC member?  Really?


>>From: Rob Weir <>
>>Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 9:27 AM
>>Subject: Re: [RT] Create a second incubator podling - the ooo forums
>>On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 9:13 AM, Joe Schaefer <> wrote:
>>> Up until a few days ago I thought we had one.
>>> Move the forums over to the ASF, give the PPMC
>>> and ASF members the full ability (upon request)
>>> to oversee allcommunications within the forums,
>>> and life goeson.  I see no need for the Volunteers
>>> to join the PPMC or anything like that, just keep
>>> doing whatever you're doing and keep the PPMC abreast
>>> of anything report-worthy when they need to report
>>> to the board.  If the Volunteers want to incorporate
>>> some Apache-style voting processes into their ops,
>>> go for it!
>>And if I wanted to create a group called the "Calc developer
>>volunteers", could we join the project, with the understanding the
>>rest of the project would leave us alone?  We would vote in our own
>>committers, etc,. independently of the normal PMC process.  We would
>>conduct our business on restricted-access mailing lists, not visible
>>to the public.  But on request we'd allow PMC members to join these
>>Ignore for a second the IP implications.  That is really a red
>>herring.  The point is meritocracy, decision making and PMC oversight.
>>Think of similar analogies with non-release aspects of the project,
>>like web site design, documentation, wikis, etc.
>>Where else does Apache have a meritocracy embedded in a project that
>>does not commune with the PMC?  In an ideal world, where everything
>>just worked, and there were never any disagreements or disputes, then
>>this might work.  But in that world we wouldn't need a PMC or an ASF
>>Board either.  In any case, we don't live in such a world.
>>It is bizarre, but I hear people advocating for community
>>fragmentation in the name of community unity.  Having two parallel
>>meritocracies within the same project is fragmentation.  I don't see
>>how we can call it anything else.
>>>>From: Rory O'Farrell <>
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 9:08 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: [RT] Create a second incubator podling - the ooo forums
>>>>On Tue, 6 Sep 2011 05:49:09 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>Joe Schaefer <> wrote:
>>>>> So to answer your questions, yes it certainly could be done
>>>>> within the Apache structure.  No it probably cannot be done
>>>>> to host stuff here on behalf of some third party.
>>>>Thanks, that is helpful in clarifying options.
>>>>So to be hosted on Apache one would need to find some mechanism whereby a
forum would fit into Apache; by your earlier post you do not think there is such a mechanism.
Might Apache be prepared to modify (by extension) their structures to accomodate these? 
This becomes a problem for the legal draughtsmen, of course.  The old rule of £minimal change"
ought apply.
>>>>I'm not asking for a change, just exploring the possibility of one.
>>>>Rory O'Farrell <>

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