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From Rob Weir <>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Support forums
Date Wed, 07 Sep 2011 02:52:08 GMT
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Joe Schaefer <> wrote:
> Look Simon, while I obviously don't have the time nor
> the inclination to comment on every suggestion made on
> this list, all I've *ever* expected us to do with the
> forums is to just start hosting it on ASF gear.  The
> only modifications infra wanted were with respect to
> bringing the codebase up to the latest available
> version(s).
> Frontloading this effort with a bunch of social and technical
> red tape servesneither the ASF nor the goals of the Apache
> Way, whichis supposed to involve gradual, evolutionary changes
> toboth communities and to code.  Revolutions are not called
> for at this particular juncture; it's hard enough work
> to just move things over (both code-wise and community-wise)
> largely unchanged.

Joe, no one is asking for a revolution.  In fact I'm suggesting that
the forum volunteers taking their time and think this through
carefully before deciding.  Others were urging swift action, that the
forums should be quickly integrated without any discussions at all.  I
think that is the more revolutionary approach, bypassing PPMC
discussion and consensus building.

If we saw eye to eye on the broad strokes of collaboration but
differed in the fine details, then I could see letting that work
itself out as the Podling worked toward graduation.  But clearly the
gulf of expectations was too large in this case.  We'll be close
enough when we are confident that the details can work themselves out
on the path to graduation.  I think we're getting closer.  You might
think we're already there, or we're always been there.  That's your
opinion.  Others may share it as well.  But if everyone but me thought
that then we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we?  Elephants
aside, I may be the most obnoxious person speaking these views, but
I'm far from the only one that thinks working out a common
understanding now makes sense.


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