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From Rob Weir <>
Subject Re: What is needed for Support Forums to be fully integrated into the Apache project
Date Tue, 06 Sep 2011 15:57:48 GMT
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 11:41 AM, David McKay <> wrote:
> On 06/09/2011 15:56, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>> Christian,
>> What I find awkward around all of these discussions is that there are
>> already several Apache OOo PPMC members who were and are already
>> administrators and moderators on the forums, and not one of
>> them stood up here, on ooo-dev, and said so.
>> It boggles my mind how much withholding is going on.
>>  - Dennis
> Not strictly true. I've said several times that I was a moderator on the
> forums. This is getting to too much like the emperor's new clothes.
> Does it have to be more complicated than this: agree the high-level points
> and them work out the detail. As far as i can see the main points are as
> follows.
> 1) The forums bring great value to the Ooo community and project alike. The
> more help the end users get the better. The more bugs that are brought to
> our attention and find their way into bugzilla the better. It is already one
> well-founded and respected face of OOo to the outside world.
> 2) The forums need a new home.
> 3) For that home to be under the Apache umbrella, as a minimum, it requires
> some tweaking of the forum management/administration, or at least, a
> permanent visible record of the management/administration actions.
> 4) Collaboratively, we ought to be able to get this done.

All nice statements.  But we had nice statements before.  It is time
to back up nice statements with a true common understanding, including
a written proposal from this autonomous forum volunteers on how they
wish to operate within the AOOo project, a proposal that the entire
PPMC can review and disucss and hopefully approve.

This level of formality, having an actual proposal, will raising the
level of discourse from from bitter arguments on the list to saying
actually what you plan to do.  It also makes the understanding
concrete and memorializes it so both the forum volunteers and the PPMC
can refer to it in the future when memories fade.

Remember, we don't create a new mailing list in this project without
someone actually submitting a proposal and having a discussion.  We
should not be migrating years of content, bring on board 75 new
project volunteers with a very different operating style, with many
connections to the rest of the AOOo and Apache Infra, without having
that same level of diligence.

In any area that has been rife with misunderstandings, this is not the
place to rush.  We should tone down the discussions and hash out the
details with greater civility.  But let's take our time and ensure
that we're all on common ground when this is over.

> Dave.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Christian Grobmeier []
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 02:58
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: What is needed for Support Forums to be fully integrated into
>> the Apache project
>>> We are a group of users who believes in OOo.
>>> We like to help other users through forums (some like ML, we prefer
>>> forum,
>>> that's life).
>> This all and then tons of work you already have done (up to 18.000
>> posts!!) should make you eligible as an ASF committer.
>> Cheers
>> [ ... ]

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