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From Rob Weir <>
Subject Re: An invitation to committers to the OOo Community Forums
Date Fri, 02 Sep 2011 12:14:31 GMT
On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 5:28 AM, Christian Grobmeier <> wrote:
>> Shane there are some intrinsic differences between a DL and posting into a
>> forum. However, reading this entire thread I get the feeling that some of
>> the current practices on the forum may be unacceptable to Apache / the
>> project.  However in this case, I would suggest that:
>> 1) we adopt an evolutionary approach -- that is get the forums moved and
>> then make any changes.
>> 2) we constitute a small group with forum experience *and* ASF experience do
>> a specific task of reviewing current practices against Apache norms and
>> practices, then draft some change guidelines for feeding to the forums, and
>> an impact assessment of their implementation.  We can then feed them into
>> the ooo-dev list for comment and if needed vote on their adoption.
> Actually - reading this thread - I think running an support forum of
> this kind is something we haven't done before at apache (or at least
> to my knowledge). That being said we probably need to rethink of what
> we have done in the past.
>> This would address such issue as:
>> (i) Do we allow the forum moderators use the forum itself to discuss forum
>> management or must this be done on ooo-dev
> In tradition, all ASF related matters - code, users etc - are
> discussed in public on the dev list. The user lists has been utilized
> to do support to users. Now there is an forum in addtiion to a list.
> The credo is:"if it happened on list, it didn't happen". Ok, the board
> is not on list - so it didn't happen. I think management of the board
> can also happen on the board as Terry suggested (i think he did).

That logic doesn't really work.  The fact that it is not a mailing
list (and therefore "it didn't happen") is not magical permission to
do things in a project that would otherwise not be allowed.  For
example, could we create a forum for project-level fundraising, for
paying developers, for developing code not under ALv2 and for selling
CD's of AOOo, and argue that this is OK, because, "the board is not on
list - so it didn't happen"?

> But that my personal opinion.
>> (ii) Do we permit the NL forum moderators to use their own NL for this or
>> are we insisting that this is done in English?
> I am all for native language, as long as committers are around who can
> understand this language.
>> (iii) Do we permit the use of a closed access forum / DL for discussing
>> forum conduct?
> To discuss general rules and how to run the board, I am for ML -
> because all committers can read. For specific cases, like bad user
> behaviour or such, a closed forum on the forum would apply imho
>> I have my own opinions on the consequences of some of these points, for
>> example, many NL moderators / volunteers have poor working use of English;
>> many moderators would be unwilling to discuss moderation issues for
>> establish consensus if this had to be done in public.  My feeling is that if
>> we choose to forced them to work this way then we will lose many of our
>> moderators / forum contributors who answer most of the Qs.  But let us at
>> least draft this guideline and vote on it before executing.
> +1, as you said, ooo was always a multi-language project and we should
> not reduce. But there must be people who have an oversight - a few
> committers must speak the language, than it is ok.
>> I will post a synopsis of this thread to the forums and ask them to comment
>> back here.
> Oh thanks :-) I should answered on the board right? ;-)
> Cheers

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