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From Alexandro Colorado <...@openoffice.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] NL Mailing Lists (was RE: [PROPOSAL] Set up of ooo-dev-ja at incubator.apache.org)
Date Fri, 09 Sep 2011 20:37:42 GMT
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 11:59 AM, Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
> <dennis.hamilton@acm.org> wrote:
> > I am changing the topic of this branch of the discussion.
> >
> > I am worried about some problems with mailing lists and migration of
> OpenOffice.org.  If the problems are allowed, it should be on purpose.
> >
> > I suggest discussing those problems before the situation is made worse.
>  I will move this topic to the OOOUSER wiki on the weekend.
> >
> > PERSONAL CONCERN:
> >
> >  1. The current list arrangement is technically superior to what is
> proposed for replacement.
> >
>
> Could be be more specific about what you think is technically superior
> about the existing approach?  And by that I assume you mean the 332
> existing OOo mailing lists?
>

Mailing list in OOo are better integrated with the OOo plataform as well as
better mangement tools for the leads, and each lead or officier manage their
own ML. So is not all centralized.


>
> >  2. Shutting down the resources of a community and expecting that
> community to migrate itself onto an alternative will deteriorate if not
> completely lose the participation of that community.
> >
>
> Is this really true?  Have you looked at recent traffic on
> ooo-dev@i.a.o versus dev@oo.o, for example?
>

Yes we had a similar issue happening to us when we want to implement
independent mailing lists.


>
> And was your dire prediction true of LibreOffice?  I don't think so.
>

Many NL were structuraly fractured when people went to libreoffice while
other stayed in OOo.  You should think so or at least do the research on the
archieves.



>
> Certainly there is a tipping point, when a critical mass of
> participants move over from one list to another.  That takes time.
> This is encouraged by giving a consistent message about the migration,
> something we've failed to do so far.  For example, even after we
> agreed to create ooo-users, I see you talking about this, on that list
> and elsewhere, as a mistake.  That is not helping.
>
> -Rob
>
> > TO CONSIDER:
> >
> > Preservation of the existing mailing lists and their services; the means
> for doing so.
> >
> > Migration of the existing mailing list services and content onto Apache
> hosting along with OpenOffice.org hosting.
> >
> > Restoration of moderation and support of the lists themselves.
> >
> > Within the existing structure and subscriber community of each NL group:
> simplification, consolidation, or retirement (with preservation) of existing
> lists that are redundant, inactive, or too specialized to sustain.
> >
> > Adjustment of the operational support to satisfy ASF requirements for
> oversight and accountability.
> >
> > Transfer of lists to different services and operation only when loss of
> functionality and community disruption is minimized.
> >
> > Automatic continuation of the established community and subscriptions on
> any migration onto different list systems.
> >
> > Involvement and engagement of the existing NL group community in each
> step of the way.  Minimize avoidable disaffection.
> >
> >  - Dennis
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: joesch04@web.de [mailto:joesch04@web.de]
> > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 01:55
> > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Set up of ooo-dev-ja at incubator.apache.org
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Dave Fisher schrieb:
> >> > if you mix everything like user questions and answers,
> >> marketing, QA
> >> > et cetra on only *one ML*, you will alienate the poor users.
> >> >
> >> > But it seems to be the way it is.
> >> > so ... I wish you all the best.
> >>
> >> I understand your concerns about mixing marketing with users.
> >> What are the other categories besides marketing that users
> >> should be shielded from? Translation? We've been mentored to
> >> only have additional lists for good reason and with careful
> >> consideration of the community and our oversight
> >> responsibilities to the ASF.
> >
> > It is very, very simple.
> >
> > The list users@de.openoffice.org is a list ONLY for german-speaking
> users. This
> > users a _not Community-members_ but only users and this users cannot
> write
> > questions in english.
> > The list users@de.openoffice.org is a support-list for users, not a list
> to
> > coordinate the activity of the project-members.
> >
> > OK, we can replace users@de.openoffice.org by a german forum but the
> users just
> > like users@de.openoffice.org, and it would be better to have a
> German-language
> > forum AND a german USERS-list.
> >
> >
> >
> > Greetings
> > Jörg
> >
> > --
> > www.calc-info.de
> >
> >
> >
>



-- 
*Alexandro Colorado*
*OpenOffice.org* Español
http://es.openoffice.org
fingerprint: E62B CF77 1BEA 0749 C0B8 50B9 3DE6 A84A 68D0 72E6

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