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From Ross Gardler <>
Subject Re: Dissatisfaction amongst the community admins, moderators and volunteers
Date Sun, 04 Sep 2011 22:22:19 GMT
On 4 September 2011 22:37, Terry Ellison <> wrote:
> On 04/09/11 22:13, Dave Fisher wrote:
>> On Sep 4, 2011, at 11:13 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>> On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Terry Ellison<>


>> If several members of the PPMC are participating as forum volunteers and
>> all the conversations in these private lists are immutable and available to
>> the whole PPMC and Apache Members why would we need a feed to ooo-private?
>> This really isn't any different from the PPMC trusting a small number of ML
>> moderators.
> One specific technical point:  the content of no forums or posts is
> immutable.  Originators and moderators can change their content or even
> withdraw it by deleting the post.  We do this regularly with spam.  No forum
> models that I am familiar with embeds versioning.

One of the reasons for allowing Member level access to PMC lists is to
ensure that there is some way to escalate a dispute to an independent
third party. This happens very rarely, but when it does it really is
not fun for the people involved, as you can imagine.

One other reason (which fortunately is even rarer) is that we
sometimes need to provide materials as part of some court case or
other. IN these circumstances lawyers spend a long time ensuring that
no unnecessary information is shared and that private information is
provided with the appropriate confidences.

Requiring those people to trawl logs to ensure no edits have been made
in private discussions is adding unnecessary work that, I hope, can be

Would it be possible/make sense to provide a read-only archive of the
private forums in the private PMC list? I'm not saying discussion
should necessarily move to that list (although I think this should be
the end goal, but lets take baby steps and keep options open). This
approach would have the added benefit of providing PPMC oversight on
the private discussions.

I'm not concerned about edits in public posts, particularly with the
existing practice of marking such posts as edited.


Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)

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