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From Kay Schenk <kay.sch...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Concerns about all PDL website material
Date Sat, 10 Sep 2011 16:05:13 GMT
On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net> wrote:

> Hi Dennis,
>
> I am under impression that the license for everything on OOo is PDL, yet
> almost nothing fulfills the terms.
>
> Copyrights are with the Initial Writer. If I can find an Initial Writer I
> will mark it - pretty much only in <META> tags although that is whose OOo
> back in 2000/2002 created or changed the page or some lists in some places.
>
> As far as copyright where there is no identified Initial Writer should we:
>
> (1) Have no copyright.
> (2) Put the ASF copyright in place.
> (3) Put an Oracle copyright on it.
> (4) Put an OpenOffice.org copyright on it.
>
> We can't do (3) we're not Oracle. We should stop doing (2).
>
> Unless there is an argument in one direction or another I'll do (1) by Lazy
> Consensus.
>
> I recommend that as we replace pages with AOOo policies that we create
> mdtext replacements as fresh files.
>
> On Sep 7, 2011, at 4:11 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>
> > Dave,
> >
> > It would seem that these (few, I believe we're told) can be handled the
> same as unclear provenance anywhere in the code base and its dependencies.
> >
> > The ideal time to clean these up would be when the site is under the
> OpenOffice.org domain name but actually hosted on Apache infrastructure.
>  That gives complete ability to make all of the adjustments that are needed,
> including the numerous minor ones to connect to the Bugzilla, etc.
> >
> > I'm not clear how migration of the wiki is impacted, unless you mean the
> proposed movement of material now on static web pages into the wiki?
>
> That is my concern. Kay will need to assure that we know which wiki pages
> came in as "PDL" as I think they'll need to stay that way.
>

uh...well I am not sure AT ALL how to determine this esp the pages that are
not English. Oh joy -- I'm not a good legal eagle. :(

Somehow I have a feeling that when OpenOffice.org spec'd the PDL, we/they
were just trying to use something convenient that was available in the
public domain.

Anyway, I'll take a look at the NL sites in the next day or so and see what
I can determine.


>
> >
> > Exactly where are you finding these PDL license notices?  The first one I
> found was on the "Open Office.org 3 Installation Guide", a PDF (or ODT)
> reachable from <http://download.openoffice.org/common/instructions.html>.
>  If we *don't touch it* can't it be retained until a permissively-licenses
> alternative is needed?  I don't see a reason to be concerned that the
> authors/contributors did not properly execute the instructions of the
> license they have offered.
>
> That's not the concern, the concern is if StarOffice, Sun, and/or Oracle
> lost the paperwork. I suppose should we be presented with a copy of the PDL
> from an Initial Writer then we fix the issue.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> >
> > - Dennis
> >
> > RELAXED RETAIN, SUPPLEMENT, AND REPLACE SCENARIO
> >
> > If the notices are always in standalone documents such as the
> Installation Guide, I don't see any problem making them available the same
> way they are now.  They should simply be left intact.  They can be replaced
> by non-derivative replacements later, when there are Apache OOo releases
> that require different information.  I don't see why we have to hurry.
>  Instructions for existing releases remain valuable to keep around.  I
> suggest preserving them right where they are, where people expect to find
> them.
> >
> > When there are releases from Apache OOo, supplementary documents could be
> offered.  That would be another way to provide specific information
> applicable to later releases.  I see considerable time before these
> PDL-licensed documents need to be supplanted. They might be retained for a
> very long time.
> >
> >
> > - Dennis
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dave Fisher [mailto:dave2wave@comcast.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 14:33
> > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Concerns about all PDL website material
> >
> >
> > On Sep 7, 2011, at 2:16 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net>
> wrote:
> >>> I am stuck on a licensing issue with the OpenOffice.org website and I
> begin to doubt if can do much with it other than rehost and correct obvious
> changes in policy.
> >>>
> >>> Please look at http://www.openoffice.org/licenses/PDL.html
> >>>
> >>> (Whether the PDL is category A for Apache is a follow up, but there is
> no point without resolving the following.)
> >>>
> >>> Specifically look at:
> >>>
> >>>> Required Notices.
> >>>> You must duplicate the notice in the Appendix in each file of the
> Documentation. If it is not possible to put such notice in a particular
> Documentation file due to its structure, then You must include such notice
> in a location (such as a relevant directory) where a reader would be likely
> to look for such a notice, for example, via a hyperlink in each file of the
> Documentation that takes the reader to a page that describes the origin and
> ownership of the Documentation. If You created one or more Modification(s)
> You may add your name as a Contributor to the notice described in the
> Appendix.
> >>>> You must also duplicate this License in any Documentation file (or
> with a hyperlink in each file of the Documentation) where You describe
> recipients' rights or ownership rights.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> and
> >>>
> >>>> Appendix
> >>>> Public Documentation License Notice
> >>>> The contents of this Documentation are subject to the Public
> Documentation License Version 1.0 (the "License"); you may only use this
> Documentation if you comply with the terms of this License. A copy of the
> License is available at __________________[Insert hyperlink].
> >>>> The Original Documentation is _________________. The Initial Writer
of
> the Original Documentation is ___________ Copyright (C)_________[Insert
> year(s)]. All Rights Reserved. (Initial Writer
> contact(s):________________[Insert hyperlink/alias]).
> >>>> Contributor(s): ______________________________________.
> >>>> Portions created by ______ are Copyright (C)_________[Insert year(s)].
> All Rights Reserved. (Contributor contact(s):________________[Insert
> hyperlink/alias]).
> >>>> NOTE: The text of this Appendix may differ slightly from the text of
> the notices in the files of the Original Documentation. You should use the
> text of this Appendixrather than the text found in the Original
> Documentation for Your Modifications.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Does it ever actually require that someone fill in the blanks in the
> >> Appendix?  I see that it requires one to duplicate the notice in the
> >> appendix.  And it permits (but does not require) initial writers and
> >> contributors to add their names to the Appendix.
> >
> > If no one seems to ever provide this information then what can we assume?
> If there is no Initial Writer then who holds the copyright? Where's the
> paperwork? Where does that leave us? Square one on the website and anything
> derived from PDL?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Dave
> >
> >>
> >>> I can find no answer to the question about who are the initial writers
> and further contributors are for all most all web pages. There are some that
> have meta tags, but that is not following the terms.
> >>>
> >>> Can anyone provide help here? Do most pages have an "INitial Writer"
> and "Contributor" of Oracle Corporation?
> >>>
> >>> Would we need to see if the archives from prior to the kenai migration
> have enough history to determine "Initial Writers" and "Contributors"?
> >>>
> >>> Where are these appendices?
> >>>
> >>> I don't see any point in working on the OOo website or transfers to
> MWiki or CWiki without clarification.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Dave
> >
>
>


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