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From Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Set up of ooo-dev-ja at incubator.apache.org
Date Thu, 08 Sep 2011 21:12:02 GMT

On Sep 8, 2011, at 10:25 AM, Manfred A. Reiter wrote:

> Hi Kazunari-san, all
> 
> 2011/9/8 Marcus (OOo) <marcus.mail@wtnet.de>
> 
>> Am 09/08/2011 02:26 PM, schrieb Kazunari Hirano:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
> [...]
> 
> 
>> 
>>> Which do you prefer, "ooo-general-xx at incubator.apache.org" or
>>> "ooo-dev-xx at incubator.apache.org"?
>>> (xx is ISO language code)
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> khirano
>>> 
>> 
>> +1 for "ooo-general-ja".
>> 
>> As you want to open the list not only for dev's but for users, marketing
>> people, QA, etc. I expect a bunsh of very different subscribers. So, let's
>> make this visible with the name of the mailing list.
>> 
>> Marcus
>> 
> 
> if you mix everything like user questions and answers, marketing, QA et
> cetra
> on only *one ML*, you will alienate the poor users.
> 
> But it seems to be the way it is.
> so ... I wish you all the best.

I understand your concerns about mixing marketing with users. What are the other categories
besides marketing that users should be shielded from? Translation? We've been mentored to
only have additional lists for good reason and with careful consideration of the community
and our oversight responsibilities to the ASF.

The dev / users set of lists is a very usual pattern at Apache. Having "what happens" be in
English is one thing, but it is a disadvantage for much of the world. I know that I would
have a difficult time writing German email, but I would have a small chance after sufficient
immersion. I would be at a complete loss in a Chinese or Brazilian ML.

If there are ooo-users-de and ooo-dev-de MLs then the purpose of ooo-users-de is clear while
ooo-dev-de would be a catch all for German language discussions about issues of concern to
the German speaking community - marketing, translation, and documentation.

Raphael did a test migration de.openoffice.org and it clearly will need updates. To me that
would be better done in German.

So, I am for NL dev lists. We'll just need to find a good way to do oversight in English.
Considering that there are a minimum of 7 Germans or Swiss on http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/people.html.
There are 15 people from English speaking countries listed. There are 6 Chinese (including
Taiwan) who are beginning to appear.

How would the whole PPMC provide governance for NL projects with a necessary ooo-dev-$LANG
ML? Clearly we'll have to have a critical mass of PPMC to have a list.

Should we have an experiment with German?

Regards,
Dave

> 
> Keen to hear from your experiment ;-)
> 
> 
> follows a message only to german speakers:
> @ an alle deutschsprachigen hier:
> Ich gehe jetzt ins off, weil ich nicht mehr bereit, diese endlosen
> Diskussion über *eine* zusätzliche Mailingliste zu führen. Genau diese
> Diskussionen hatten wir vor 10 Jahren vor dem 1. Geburtstag von OOo.
> 
> Ja, ich weiss, die Zeiten haben sich geändert.
> 
> Aber man muss auch wissen, ob man viele Menschen, die bereit
> und willens sind, OOo weiterhin in lokalen Märkten zu platzieren,
> ausschließt, nur weil sie nicht bereit oder willens sind in einer
> anderen Sprache als ihrer Muttersprache zu organisieren.
> 
> Nein, ich halte diese Haltung nicht für eine Form des
> Sprach-Kolonialismus, aber ich halte es eine Form von
> "Kontrollitis" ... mag sein, dass es sein muss ... mag sein,
> dass es nicht sein muss.
> 
> Ich bin bereit anzuerkennen, was geht und was nicht geht.
> Sollte irgendwann einmal die Möglichkeit bestehen auch
> bei AOOo wenigsten zwei Listen für eine Sprache bereit
> zu stellen ... eine für die users und eine für die übrigen
> Dinge, dann kann man mich gerne wieder ansprechen.
> 
> -- 
> ## Manfred Reiter


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