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From Shane Curcuru <...@shanecurcuru.org>
Subject Re: Bug reporting, handling rules
Date Thu, 08 Sep 2011 13:13:58 GMT
On 9/8/2011 6:59 AM, Danese Cooper wrote:
> So...I'm sitting here at TransferSummit getting a tour of this thread from
> the point of view of a European who has been involved in OpenOffice for some
> time...and he'd like to point out that what this guy's is doing (using
> free.fr) is pretty common amongst French hackers.  The system automatically
> appends the referring domain to reply addresses to discourage replies which
> it doesn't want to handle.
>
> If infra have an issue with free.fr it should take that up with them.
>
> If we value this guy's contributions aside from his choice of mail service
> then we should (gently) guide him to a better place, AFTER welcoming him.
>   What we should NOT do is rush to tell him he's 1) rude 2) an asshat or 3)
> not welcome.
>
> Nor should we pile on in a way that makes the poor guy feel like he's done
> something wrong when all he's doing is trying to participate in the
> discussion.  I'm concerned that we're tossing babies out with the bathwater
> of "how we like to do things here"...these folks are in learning mode.
>   Let's not automatically castigate them. Let's try to understand the content
> they bring rather than shooting them for form violations...K?

Sorry, let me try to restate:

- Yes, we are happy to have people use consistent aliases with a valid 
reply-to address in our communities.  I was trying to reinforce this 
message that it's OK to be anonymous, because there are some other 
discussions here attacking anonymity, and I wanted to make sure people 
understand that it's explicitly OK under the Apache Way.

- We should also welcome everyone who makes constructive comments or 
questions.  That's how the community can learn and grow, and is a key 
reason that virtually everything at Apache happens on public lists.

However, there are serious issues here that I think you're glossing over.

- Personally, I consider it a social rule that list participants must 
use a valid Reply-to: address.  There are plenty of times where we might 
want to contact them offlist to clarify a question, or even to send them 
a "welcome, don't be afraid of all those other annoying people on the 
list" message in private.

That's not specifically an Apache rule, and each community (like the 
Apache OOo PPMC) can choose to allow non-valid reply-to addresses if 
they like.  I just find it tends to impede conversations, but if the 
community here wants to accept it that's fine.

- It is *not* allowable to spoof an *.apache.org email address, period. 
  I've already discussed this with some folks at Apache infra, and I'm 
guessing they will ban this kind of activity on our lists.  There are 
real infrastructure issues with allowing people to spoof addresses at 
our domain, so it's simply not going to be allowed.

It would be great if someone with experience with mail routing could 
work with free.fr to find a solution for this for their users; sadly I 
can't help with that.  Can you find someone over at TransferSummit 
(which sounds great) to help with that?

That's also why I suggested finding an alternative email provider - 
there are plenty around, including plenty of free email providers that 
have simple throwaway email address generators that I would think would 
be fine for this free.fr user to use.

I agree that we need a level of civility on this list.  But I have to 
say faking emails from our servers really bugs me.

- Shane

>
> Danese
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 3:36 AM, Shane Curcuru<asf@shanecurcuru.org>  wrote:
>
>> Speaking strictly personally, I'm fine with a respectful user who's posting
>> worthwhile content to use whatever sort of anonymous email address they
>> choose - as long as it's a stable one within this email list.
>>
>> I am *not* fine with them spoofing Apache mailserver addresses under any
>> circumstances.  I'd be happy if the Apache infra team banned such use
>> without notice.
>>
>> Being anonymous is fine, and there are plenty of free email hosts
>> available.  Spoofing an @apache.org address which is not valid is just
>> plain rude and shouldn't be allowed.
>>
>> - Shane
>>
>>
>> On 9/8/2011 4:05 AM, FR web forum wrote:
>>
>>> Yes "FR web forum" is apparently operating pseudonymously *and*
>>>> anonymously.
>>>> Those mails often copied oooforum [at] free [dot] fr also, and I switched
>>>> to
>>>> replying to thatthat until I realized that I was simply cross-posting to
>>>> yet-another list.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Please don't send my email address in clear. I don't want to be listed by
>>> spam-bots. :-(
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>

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