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From David McKay <>
Subject Re: Proposal: Forum integration
Date Tue, 06 Sep 2011 21:41:31 GMT

On 06/09/2011 22:34, Dave Fisher wrote:
> On Sep 6, 2011, at 1:54 PM, drew wrote:
>> On Tue, 2011-09-06 at 15:25 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>> <snip>
>>> Thanks.
>>> So would something like this work:
>>> Site admins must be PPMC members,  appointed by PPMC, with actual site
>>> admin assignment made by Infra.  In other words, only Infra has the
>>> skeleton key.
>> Yes I think everyone saw that as a given.
>>> Forum admins must be also be PPMC members, appointed  by PPMC.
>> Would change to:
>> Forum admins must be PPMC members and approved by the PPMC.
>>> The
>>> actual rights assignment could be done by a site admin, not involving
>>> Infra?
>> I think you mean the assignment is done by an existing forum admin,
>> therefore not requiring Inra intervention - yes? and yes. :)
>>> Moderators/Volunteers selected by the forum participants:
>>> 1) According to written rules which are publicly posted and approved by the PPMC
>> No problem with that.
>>> 2) Rules shall allow any PPMC member or Mentor to become a moderator
>>> or admin on request
>> I would not agree to that - any PPMC member wanting to come do the work
>> of answering questions, over a period of time, is free to do so just as
>> anyone else is free to do.
> I think a rule of the Foundation is that all Members can have access to whatever Apache
resource they desire.
> You'll have to accept Apache Members.
> Consider the slight possibility that a PPMC member who gets involved behaves badly and
disrespectfully in the forum management. There is recourse - ooo-private. Any PPMC member
has responsibility to the project and the ASF. Assuming that this proposal passes the Site
and Forum Admins will be PPMC members and have such recourse available.
> You ought to allow any PPMC member to perform any oversight they deem necessary within
the rules and culture of the admins. It is a responsibility of a (P)PMC to perform oversight.
Any of us should be able to check on others.
> Regards,
> Dave
That sounds more or less fine to me. I'd just add that you can't just 
turn up and become a Committer. Same sort of thing in my mind should 
apply with the Forum and moderation. you can't just turn up. you have to 
enrol and then participate for a while, and then be voted on. Same sort 
of principle. That doesn't preclude anyone from having visibility to 
anything meanwhile, which is the 'resource' we're talking about here.
>> In the case of a non PPMC member if that person then desires to take on
>> responsibilities there is a clear way to do that - first become a
>> volunteer, see how the sausage is made, still want to do this and you
>> want to be a 'standard' moderator no problem. If they want to take on
>> more responsibility then they need to do a few other things,
>> specifically to execute all the steps necessary to be accepted into the
>> PPMC, and get approval from the PPMC. In the case of a PPMC member they
>> simply then have to do that last step.
>> This is not about declaring some lingering ownership rights, this a
>> simple case of giving a little respect to the folks actually doing the
>> work - I don't think this goes against anything I've read about 'the
>> apache way'.
>> - of course that works as long as the site is functioning regularly -
>> but if say the whole crew up and leaves or the couple of admins all die
>> in a plane crash on the way to, oh I don't know, maybe the:
>> Ohio Linux Festival - this coming weekend, Columbus Ohio :)
>> then of course the PPMC can and would just appoint new people a needed.
>>> 3) Changes to such rules require approval by the PPMC
>> Agreed.
>>> 4) No PPMC approval required for new modertors/volunteers
>> Agreed
>>> 5) But no moderator has ban rights unless also a PPMC member
>> Agreed
>>> That avoids any PPMC review except for new Admins,  and for the
>>> Admin/Moderator rules which your draft yourselves among the forum
>>> volunteers
>> How does that sound?
>> //drew

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