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From Shane Curcuru <...@shanecurcuru.org>
Subject Re: [RT] Create a second incubator podling - the ooo forums
Date Tue, 06 Sep 2011 13:01:04 GMT
Here are the two fundamental and unalterable issues that are going to 
cause changes to the forums.

On 9/6/2011 8:37 AM, Rory O'Farrell wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Sep 2011 05:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Joe
> Schaefer<joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>  wrote:
>
>> Sorry, but if this were put to a vote on general@incubator I'd
>> likely vote -1 as it is out of scope for the incubator to incubate
>> a non-software-development related group.  Frankly we have no
>> business overseeing this work on anything more than a formal level
>> because we have no institutional experience with forums and their
>> management.
>
> Do you then see no role for support for whatever project at the
> unskilled (ordinary member of the public) user level within the
> Apache structure?

Personally, I would love to see a community of services provided to end 
users for Apache OOo.  The purpose of Apache is to provide useful 
software for the public good.  Providing an end-user product without 
some easy access to community-led end-user support is not useful.

> If the Forum continues to provide such support for OpenOffice and its
> various forks, including it is to be hoped the forthcoming Apache
> version, which is the wish and intention of its Volunteer corps, is
> there any mechanism whereby Apache might provide hosting faciltities,
> with suitable disclaimers as to non liability?

No, Apache is not a hosting organization.

The fundamental issues requiring some sort of agreement or change are:

1 - The Oracle servers the forums live on are going away (someday). 
Hence, the existing technical and organizational leaders of the forums 
*must* migrate the code and content somewhere else.

This primarily needs folks like Terry and... who else? to start driving 
the work, in conjunction with this PPMC and then Apache infrastructure. 
  I would expect that some technical changes are required when moving to 
a new server, no matter where it ends up.


2 - The openoffice.org domain name is being transferred to the ASF. 
Thus Apache will be responsible for content hosted there, and in that 
case, we require that a (P)PMC have oversight and effective control of 
the primary content hosted on that domain name.

Apache does not host content that is not owned by one of our projects. 
There are ample third party hosting organizations for that purpose; our 
purpose is to support our projects, as they are led by our PMCs.

Note that this is all my personal opinion.  But fundamentally, unless 
action is taken by several groups in conjunction, the forums will 
disappear at some point in the future, which I think everyone agrees 
would be a Really Bad Thing.

----
Note also that I agree with Joe's frustration with the lack of civility 
on both sides of this equation.  This, coupled with the poor job on the 
Apache OOo side of communicating nicely how Apache actually works to the 
forum side has been a serious problem for the podling.

What is the best *single* place for me to communicate with the primary 
decision makers in the forums?  Note that I prefer mailing lists but am 
happy to use a forum when needed.  (I say *single* place only because I 
am unbelievably overbooked this week)

- Shane

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