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From Terry Ellison <Te...@ellisons.org.uk>
Subject Re: Dissatisfaction amongst the community admins, moderators and volunteers
Date Sun, 04 Sep 2011 17:34:11 GMT
On 04/09/11 18:01, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 12:54 PM, Terry Ellison<Terry@ellisons.org.uk>  wrote:
>> On 04/09/11 17:22, Simon Phipps wrote:
>>> On Sep 4, 2011 5:14 PM, "Rob Weir"<robweir@apache.org>    wrote:
>>>> Another thing to note is that the existing forum volunteers do not
>>>> "own" the support forums.  They do not operate autonomously.
>>> Are you sure? I believe they do.
>> +1 to Simons view  -1 to Rob.
>>
>> AFAIK, A Sun admin has logged onto this services maybe half-a-dozen times to
>> install the base O/S and Coolstack years ago, and no "Oracle"
>> Oracle-employed admin has ever done so.  Coolstack is years out of date for
>> this reason.   I (assisted by Drew in the early days) do all of the root
>> admin as well as run the Forums.
>>
>> They have always been autonomous from the OOo project organisation
>> hierarchy.  The initial decision to allow their creation in the first place
>> was more of a Sun one than an OOo project one -- as the project didn't see
>> the need to have a working User Community and Sun did and provided the box
>> for us to run our service on, though in later years the project came to
>> value the role that the forums have played.
>>
>> So from day 1 the forums have always been autonomous.  And one key driver
>> here was so that the community could have the freedom to up-sticks and take
>> their knowledge elsewhere should the relationship break down -- our primary
>> allegiance and service duty is to the end-user community, and not to a
>> development project.  The last friction was over the whole issue of whether
>> the forums should continue to support non-Oracle variants such as
>> LibreOffice, which it did and still does against some then strong Oracle
>> opinions.
>>
>> I think that both Drew and I have said this on a number of occasions.  To
>> demand that the community unilaterally surrender such autonomy without
>> reasonable engagement is a pretty sure way IMHO to force them to consider
>> the "new home" option.  Despite all of the hassle over the last few days, my
>> preference would be to vote to stay, but I am only one voice in what I think
>> is currently a minority opinion.
First do you at least acknowledge that your earlier statements that the 
forums do not operate autonomously was factually incorrect?
> I think it would be good if they made up their mind soon.  I thought
> we were close to the physical migration being completed.
Second on technical point actual the workflow goes (my SSH to Oracle) -> 
(my VM in my house) -> svn -> the ooo-*.a.o VMs.  The infra team have 
been very insistent that this last step can be done by any sysadmin.  It 
really doesn't have to be a susadmin in a.o.  This is a pretty trivial 
step that could be pretty much anywhere.
> If the
> current volunteers are not on board with the Apache project, then
> we'll need to explore alternative approaches, such as:
>
> 1) Point users to http://www.oooforum.org/
>
> 2) Do support via mailing list only
>
> 3) Use forums, but find new volunteers
If these are your options, then perhaps we should put this to a formal 
PPMC vote and inform the community of this -- if the outcome is as you 
are proposin ing this ultimatum,  then you really are forcing them into 
the revolt option.  Very unnecessary and regrettable, IMHO

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